Trade Rumor: D-Backs on Sale, Dunn is Not
Posted by CaseStreet on 10:17am, Wednesday July 8th 2009
MLBTradeRumors is reporting that the Diamondbacks are looking to trade Jon Garland, Felipe Lopez, and Doug Davis. With Jose Reyes’ return questionable, could Omar Minaya look to bring in Lopez for middle infield help or Garland for some rotation help?
Also, the Washington Post interviewed Mike Rizzo, the Nationals GM, who has all but shut the door on any Adam Dunn trades.
If you were Omar Minaya, what would you do?
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I would prefer Davis over Garland any day. But to what end? This season is done.
So when you say Let’s Go Mets, you mean “I’ve Lost All Hope!”?
Unfortunately yes.
What type of help would Garland provide? For the umteenth straight season he’s gotten worse, with ever declining K rates and ever increasing BB rates. Not to mention, pitching in the NL hasn’t lowered his ERA from when he last pitched poorly in the AL.
Big fat giant pass on Jon Garland, please.
And the last thing the Mets need right now are pitchers who don’t strike people out and will force the defense to make plays (this includes Doug Davis too). Obviously, this team is not capable of playing defense.
Lopez would probably cost too much in a trade in terms of what his value would be to the team.
If I was confident that Castillo could be moved after the season and Lopez could be re-signed to take over 2B, I would be more inclined to trade for Lopez.
i would go for lopez…if only to give the mets a cushion to eat most of castillos contract. I know people will say alex cora but frankly who would be the IF sub if alex takes over 2b…awful reyes, valdez, tatis? If we could aquire a lopez, we might be able to move castillo albeit eating most of his contract. If thats something omar wants to do. Castillo is healthy and having an ok year, hopefully that would have re-established some trade value.
Lopez is a FA at the end of the year right?
Get him and Nick Johnson and we have done a lot.
I’d be down with that.
Guys, I was making fun of the people who said we were sellers a week or two ago, but the fact is we shouldn’t be buyers. It is over this year, and perhaps next as well.
LOL, are you serious?
This year is debatable but what the hell about next year?
for saber it’s about the players, they’re cursed or something.
It’s not that our players are cursed. This main unit has gotten worse and worse over the last three years. I say we keep Reyes, Beltran, Wright, Santana, Pelfrey, and K-Rod and make wholesale changes everywhere else. We’re not that good. This year isn’t debatable if all the injury news is correct.
Debatable?
Next year doesn’t look promising if Manuel is the manager, if they don’t get a good starting pitcher and a good bat. This “core” hasn’t done it for 3 years.
Thank you MrBill for speaking reason.
If this is true, then fire Omar.
According to Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com, the Mets turned down trading Bobby Parnell for OF Scott Hairston, who the Padres eventually sent to the A’s for two minor-league pitchers.
The 28–year-old Hairston hit .299 with 10 HR and 14 doubles in 197 at bats for San Diego this season.
Hairston is arbitration eligible through 2011
nah, Parnell is more valuable than Hairston. Plus, he might be used in a good trade.
Why give up your good prospects for a scrub like Hairston.
Scrub?
.299 with 10 HR and 14 doubles in 197 at bats for San Diego this season.
This is not DeRosa here, signed long term and cheap.
Parnell at this point is very replaceable and we are not getting anyone better than Hariston without giving up MUCH more than Parnell.
right, but Parnell could be a key trade chip, not a B prospect.
Right 4.95 47 games and 1.73 WHIP that should get it done.
how do you know more guys wont become available once teams start to drop off. It would have been a waste to give up parnell on hairston knowing that he is requested very much by alot of teams…sometimes the best moves are the ones you dont make. We can get alot more for parnell…just have to be patient. Just out of curiosity by “very replaceable” who do you mean exactly…sean green?
All by teams with players that are FA at the end of the year.
Johnson, DeRosa…
Career:
255 BA
312 OBP
468 SLB
780 OPS
Scrub!
4.95 ERA 47 games and 1.73 WHIP
Stud
Rookie w/ a live arm who fell off after asked to be the setup guy
Check out his minor league numbers too.
Flash in the pan is just as possible. No second pitch.
as a starter, no?
Yes, so he will be a lights out reliever because we have numbers to prove it.
I hope you guys are right but I would have considered it and I would do it for Teahen.
or being over used for a rookie and therefore falling off….he has a very live arm with a wicked slider…
I hope you are right but his current numbers match his over all numbers that match his minor league numbers.
Doesn’t matter if he’s any good or not. The guys traded for Hairston, a platoon player at best, would not have the same value as Parnell simply because Parnell throws 97 mph.
Most likely right. But do you discount his over all numbers since he went to SD?
Discount them? He hit .248 last year, .211 after the all-star break, and can’t touch lefties.
I recognize his numbers and they’re not very good.
You can’t point to two half seasons the guy has had and project that out.
He has never been able to hit right handers.
OPS, .981, .781, .894 since going to SD?
The .981 OPs was 95 plate appearances in 2007. His whole season amounted to a .313 OBP.
In 2008, his OPS was skewed by a good slugging percentage (his OBP was awful) and was all against lefties!!! He couldn’t touch a right handed pitcher.
In 2009, a 197 at bat sample, he has a .304 OBOP v. righties.
He’s a platoon player who wouldn’t make a lick of a difference for the Mets.
Maybe you are right. Maybe we can send Parnell for Holliday. LOL.
I don’t remember anyone saying that.
Maybe we’re better off keeping Parnell and seeing if he can learn to pitch than trading him for another platoon outfielder?
97 MPH heaters are harder to find than platoon outfielders. Hell, the roster is loaded with platoon players now.
Big time scrub! Omar would have been run out of town with that trade.
What about the .255 .312 .468 in nearly 1200 at bats?
Yeah, players never get better.
I mean he did have an OPS of near .800 last year. Not great but proving that he is improving.
.981 last year with the Padres.
his OPS was 791 last year (he hit .248 for crying out loud) and .224 .309 .399 against righties.
He’s a platoon player. Nothing more.
You really want to trade one of your more marketable commodities for a guy who will play occasionally vs. lefties and pinch hit against JC Romero???
Maybe, depends on if scouts think this year and last year in SD are for real.
Last year and 2nd part of 2007 as well.
If last year was for real? He was terrible last year. Didn’t you see his splits v. righties?
In the secon dhalf of last year he hit .211 .333 .380, by the way.
If he does that again, his 197 at bat sample from the first half o fthis season won’t be worth getting yourself all worked up over.
The guy can not, and has not ever hit right handed pitchers. Don’t we have enough platoon players already?
Wow Case, this is a first for today. I agree with you. Completely.
friends today, enemies tomorrow (or next post)
Hairston is a 29 year old journeyman having a good season. He’s also a platoon player. 235 .294 .422 .716 v. righties in his career and 291 .344 .548 v. lefties.
I have no problem trading Parnell but I would think he has more value than Hairston — who was essentially traded for nothing.
Those guys that they got from Oakland were far from nothing.
One of the tow players (there’s a PTBNL) is in single A and the other is a fringe relief prospect, at best, in 31 games at Triple-A this season, with a 4.34 ERA, two saves and 39 Ks in 45.2 innings.
I’d say that Kevin Towers would have done backflips to get a guy who is throwing 97 mph in the majors.
agreed…parnell could net us better talent than hairston and if not well we could always still use parnell’s arm until we find the right deal
It’s like a perfect storm isn’t it?
What we need we can’t afford, what we can afford we don’t need.
So in the end here we are Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right,
Here I am, “Stuck in the middle with you (Mets)”.
This video goes out to all those Mets fans that can relate to me.
http://www.last.fm/music/Stealers+Wheel/_/Stuck+in+the+Middle+With+You
Can’t say we did not need Hairston and we could have afforded him.
We have no need for another platoon player in the outfield. The guy can’t hit right handed pitchers.
Injuries,injuries…Just another
excuse for Omar. As if the same team
but with an improved Pen was gonna
provide greatly different results
than the last two seasons!
Excuses,excuses…Poor us.
Bernie Madoff and now all the injuries. How oh how could we be
expected to win?…Or even be expected
to catch routine flyballs?…Or even
throw to the right cut-off men?…
Or even…well you get the point.
+1
+1000000000.
I dont like using injuries either as a cop out but you gotta admit fong..this is a bit rediculous and unprecidented…
No doubt it is BUT
as usual with Omar
theres no plan B.
Would you have this
yo-yo running you business?
OK so what GM would have a plan B for Beltran, Reyes, Delgado, Maine, Putz, Pagan, Church for part of the season, Schnieder for part of the season, Perez, Redding for part of the season, and the list goes on.
That’s the question.
There’s no way to prepare for that.
agreed. I doubt there are many teams that are equipt to deal with as many injuries as us and most importantly AT THE SAME TIME. Of course teams deal with injuries in the course of the year but we caught all of ours at the same time and thats why its killing us. Hard to put this on omar for not having a plan b for the majority of your offense being missing for 3 months…
And in many ways the bench has been better… and has been good… but there’s no team that has, or could have a bench that would replace Reyes, Delgado, Beltran, Putz, Maine and Perez.
For example, Sheffield is a vast improvement over any reserve we had last year — and he was initially a bench player, forced to play more regularly when Delgado went out.
Santos has been better than Castro (much to my surprise).
Cora has been better and more versatile than Easley (and he too was injured).
Reed has probably hit a little better than Endy Chavez.
Nieve has filled in credibly. Livan has been a better than credible fill-in and has probably earned a job for the remainder of the season.
I’m not sure who has a Jose Reyes or Carlos Delgado on their benches or waiting around in AAA.
Not exposing
Delgado,
Beltan,
Reyes&Putz to
potential injury
during the WBC,
not having Perez&Redding on the roster
and not
counting on the likes of
Church&Pagan might
have helped.
Teams can not forbid players to play in the WBC. Players can choose to not play if they are injured, as Johan did.
The players chose to play in the WBC — Omar didn’t select them and force them.
And after showing the American roster the other day, you still have not shown me a correlation between the WBC and mass injury problems outside of the Mets. How could it be that the WBC caused only the Mets to suffer injuries?
This is getting tiring. Omar is working with plan F’n Q right now. Plan B was in effect the second week of the season when the team was dealing with “GRIT” issues.
To add to your point: we missed the playoffs by one game last year with all of our core guys playing almost every game of the season. No team should go into a season expecting that out of 4 core players. To expect them to do it again this year, the only way we’d stay competitive, was silly. Omar does nothing about depth.
And the defensive ineptitude this year has been astounding. I just don’t get how major leaguers can turn into little leaguers so quickly.
Thank you! I obviously
agree. And not to start
a fire storm BUT for the 100th time…
how could the WBC benefit us in any way?
All risk,no reward!
And for what? To make
Bud Selig smile?
Come on, we had depth enough to miss a couple of them. Just not all of them at the same time. Who has that kind of depth?
And we know the main reason we did not make it last year.
Just remember WHY we missed the playoffs. It wasnt because of our core players playing almost every game of the season but rather the bullpen blew it with their 29 blown saves. Omar did his best to correct that problem, no way to know that gado/reyes/tron/putz would miss this much time.
I do agree however regarding the defense. The defense has been horrid and basically added insult to injury.
So he improved
the Pen and
thats it.
Meaning he had
to count on everything else
going well/everyone
staying healthy
and if these things all happened we
could be a playoff team.
Okay,doesn’t sound like a plan from a team with the
highest payroll
in the NL to me.
What team could survive Reyes, Delgado, Beltran, Putz and Maine going down?
I don’t like excuses but do you really buy that this year is on Omar when Jose, Beltran, Putz, etc get injured?
My friend,its all on
Omar. This is his team.
Top to bottom,players,
Mgr/Coaching staff,trainers,scouts,
etc,etc. He would get all props if we were
W.S.contenders and
must take all blame
for this fiasco.
Because Omar is the only one making decisions over there right? They got a whole war room, Omar is just the public face. You got the Wilpons Benezard and I am sure there are a couple other yahoos chiming in. When your dealing with a 1bil dollar business, one person doesn’t hold the reins.
Not to mention the buffoon of a manager.
And perhaps the owners told him that he couldn’t do certain things for finanical reasons, such as hire a competent manager when the decision was made to fire Willie or to sign Manny Ramirez or to spend the extra money on Derek Lowe…
Tony B.
works for Omar
and according to the Wilpons themselves,Omar
has full
run of the house.
But Ok
don’t assign
any blame to
him.
I assign some, he is an average GM.
But I can’t blame this season on him.
Who is the backup for Jimmy Rollins with the Phillies?
Ryan Howard?
Vicki?
Madson?
Blanton?
Don’t interject facts to the argument. It’s Omar’s fault for creating the injurious WBC, inventing the Internet and for causing poverty in the ghettos of India.
I don’t think it’s that some people are not assigning any blame to him, I think it’s that some people are not assigning ALL the blame to him.
They could get away w/o having any…They all have W.S.Rings.We don’t AND I thought THAT was the goal.
That’s silly Fongy. You are dodging facts.
I am asking you
1) Did you expect Omar to have a plan for Reyes, Delgado, Beltran, Maine, Perez, Putz, Pagan all going down at the same time?
2) What team does have a plan for that?
You are assigning blame to something all of us know nothing about. We know what is said publicly but we don’t have insider knowledge of the real story. The team is in the sh*tter and it’s Omar’s fault. Makes a lot of sense.
It’s Omar’s fault that Wright is going to break the K and DP record.
It’s Omar’s fault that Reyes has hammie issues.
It’s Omar’s fault that Murphey can’t hold on to pop fly.
It’s Omar’s fault that there are currently 9 people on the DL.
There is a reason we are all on a blog site and not running a team.
You really are a narrow clown Wanny.
I again am not blaming the WBC.I just ask again,how did it benefit us?
I dont know if or how much it hurt BUT I do know it didn’t help.You on the other hand can’t see that it might even be a possibility.Very narrow thinking.
It’s very possible but you can’t blame it on Omar or the Mets. It’s on the players.
Why do you ocntinually blame Omar for players playing in the WBC when he’s got no control over that pursuant to league rules?
Why do you keep bringing it up if you’re not blaming it? Like a broken record you bring it up every time the discussion turns to injuries and to blaming the GM for causing injuries.
You have a blatant disregard for facts and dodge them at any given opportunity.
And you’re selective w/your facts Wanny.Like “look at the USA
roster.Failing to look at all the other rosters and players who may well have been effected
by the tourny.OR your argument yesterday that if…Church had been given,not earned but given more ABs w/the Indians AND Nats AND if he hadn’t been injury prone AND if he wasn’t a little young and IF he was a little faster and IF he hit 20pts higher well then he’d be about as good as Rios,who again is no world beater.
Will you answer the questions or will you continue to deflect from the fact that you disregard the fact that the GM can not prevent a player from playing in the WBC?
I gave you all the stats yesterday, showing that Church was credible v. lefties in his few opportunities in his early career, I gave you the major league contract players playing in front of him those years, and you continue to ignore them.
So be it. Back to your cave of ignorance.
You’re right, simply because you’re right, and the facts have no bearing on the argument.
Again, I’m not revisiting the Ryan Church issue with you until you re-read everything from yesterday and begin to comprehend what the argument was about and what the facts were that were displayed.
And why don’t you show me how the WBC caused such a mass injury problem this year? Why is it my burden to disprove your baseless argument?
I think an entire roster, one of the few rosters completely comprised of MLB players, is a fair sample size.
Yes injuries are the issue. Yes the pen was the issue 2 years in a row!! Not the core!! Omar fixed the pen…well..a little.
Yes maybe if we got a few more hits and played a little tighter the last 2 weeks of each of the past 2 seasons things may have turned out different but THE WHOLE TEAM minus the pen did enough to give us nice leads down to the end. The PEN exploded. Its very simple in my mind. Also they grinded it out all year for us and worked hard for a seemingly comfortable lead in the division and to be put in a position where you needed the core to be HOT the last 2 weeks is unfair pressure imo. Theye were not the problem!
Yes I blame Omar for never landing that big corner outfield bat we have been craving the last 2 years after Alou fell apart and for not signing Dunn and Hudson this past off season but thats where it ends for me on the blam Omar train.
I mean this man Omar gave us Johan and Krod along with Putz which at the time looked like an awesome move. On top of them we have Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Delgado. He brought in Pedro which helped with the tone of this franchise. I mean cmon!! We have the most All Stars this year than any team in the NL I believe…Its injuries
thank you! Really how many other teams are making these kind of moves year in and out, 4-5? Not all moves are perfect but he is trying to give this team every shot with the resources they have.
Only 4or 5 teams can
afford to make these
kinds of moves every
yr. And Omar hasn’t made an out of the box
move since hes been here. All his positive
moves either were result of outbidding/
spending money OR having them fall in his lap OR BOTH.
Out of the box move by Philly? Lidge?
One person’s “falling into his lap” is another person’s “skillfully playing the market.”
Did you see the JJ Putz deal coming? Seems to me that a 3 way trade is very much out of the box thinking, especially when you’re dealing for a closer when you already have one. No one thought that deal was bad at the time — but no one knew the team would mishandle his injury.
How about his success with players like Tatis, Valentin, Easley, and Livan, etc.?
He’s made some very good trades: Maine? Perez?
He’s made some bad ones too: Heath Bell, Lindstrom, etc.
Just like any other GM.
Bell is fat and did not perform well with the Mets. I good half season on a bad team doesn’t tell the whole picture.
OK,I wont argue
Putz BUT
you just admitted
“the team
mishandled his
injury”
which b/t/w he
brought w/him f/Seattle.AND
by”the team” you’re referring to who
exactly?
Not to mention..He(Putz)too was allowed
to go to the WBC.
Putz wasn’t “ALLOWED” to go to the WBC. For the thirteenth time, the team can not forbid a player from going.
And the point about the mishandling of his injury has nothing to do with the point about a move outside the box. You’re manipulating the argument.
The point was that Omar has made outside the box moves.
Like I said,Very narrow.
I don’t even know what to say to you anymore. Each time a fact is presented that contradicts your opinions, you change the argument to something new and call me narrow.
I don’t know if you really have this much trouble staying focused on the issue at hand but I suggest you have a cognition evaluation from a neuropsych.
Out of the box isn’t sending 4 scrubs to Minnie for Johan?
No,where
else was
Minny going?
Thank You,Yanks and Sox!
Fongy is unbelievable. Omar is blamed for everything wrong and someone else gets credit for everything that goes well.
No,he gets credit
no doubt BUT more along the lines of “He didn’t screw that one up”
I believe…Its injuries
Well, today we take a step forward with Perez pitching….. LOL!
I think Perez will be very good for us in the 2nd half, just not tonight.
What’s the difference between tonight and the 2nd half? He will be terrible for the remaining of his contract.
Right because he has not been good EVER for us in the past.
He’s not worth his money; but that doesn’t mean he can’t be a decent pitcher.
I see. You think the REAL Perez is the one from the 2nd half of 2008.
I think the real Perez is a roughly (slightly under) .500 pitcher with an ERA around 4.50. That’s not going to help this current roster much, but would help the fully healthy Met roster IMO.
The real Perez is the rollercoaster player he is every year with the low 4 ERA and the few wins more than losses.
No, but do you think the Real Perez is a 6.00 ERA guy?
I think the Real Perez will have a season similar to last year combined. While not worth 12 million, certainly a MLB pitcher.
I have no idea how good (if at all) Hairston is in the OF, but if all he can do is be a platoon guy/PH against LH SP, then why bother? That’s what Evans does!
Just not sure trading Parnell for a guy that basically would platoon (on the short side) with Church is a good deal.
I would rather take a flyer on Rios and eat the salary.
I love Rios but that’s besides the point.
Do you think Church is a platoon player?
No hes a great everyday
player!Top shelf!Potential AllStar even!
I think Church should just play everyday. My point was, at best Hairston would have been a platoon guy, and church is the only lefty to platoon with right now.
If Church is a fulltime player then so is Hairston.
For the sake of this argument, I will assume that Church is also a platoon player.
But Church is a platoon player than will still get 400-500 at bats facing righties, while Hairston would get significantly less.
I don’t necessarily agree that Church is a platoon player, however, but won’t get back into yesterday’s discussion.
Agreed. I don’t think Church is a platoon player either. Mostly because of his defense.
Previous available commodities and suggestions such as DeRosa and Teahen would at least help because they are at least viable everyday major league players - Hairston is not.
Still like Teahen, not DeRosa. It would have cost Parnell for 1/2 of a utility player.
I’m not sure that I understand what you mean by “1/2 of a utility player” but with DeRosa already traded and now on the DL he’s a moot point anyway.
Teahen theoretically still available and not on the DL so to be considered an option. When I look at him I see a player who would make little to no difference (leaning toward little) on this team as it is currently comprised today, but would make a huge positive difference on the full healthy Met squad spelling guys all over the diamond, keeping them fresh.
Should have said 1/2 a season of a utility player.
i haven’t been commenting in a while because the season is down the drain but Omar could have prevented this.
1) The Lineup: Instead of acquiring a LF, Omar went into the year believing that Murphy/Tatis were going to be fine. Both have been terrible. Luckily Omar was handed a gift in Sheffield although he might not make it another month…
2) The Rotation: Omar put faith that Pelfrey, Maine and Ollie were going to be good enough. Pelfrey is having a bad 2nd year. Maine is injured and inconsistent like usual and Ollie has been useless. Redding has been awful and Livan has become our #2 pitcher.
granted the injuries happened but if we had a decent supporting cast in the first place, we’d be able to survive instead of having to rely on borderling MLB players like Murphy, Tatis, Evans, Santos, Nieve, Redding etc.
IMO this is a very reasonable measured critique. I am fully on the “should’ve had a viable major league corner OF” bus, unfortunately far too much of the offseason discussion was taken up by MANNY MANNY MANNY and dealing with that as a fan I got sidetracked from thinking about anyone else and suckered into believing in Murphy/Tatis until it was too late.
For a couple years at least now the problem has been as you stated, the supporting cast. The core, when healthy, is just fine, better than fine really. It is everyone else who has been underwhelming, putting too much pressure on them. That to me is the blame I put on Omar, not “not having backups for 9 injured players” as others would suggest.
It was not too late, we could have still gotten Abreu and others.
I know, by “too late” I meant for me to concentrate on anything else because I was too busy with my back against a wall, flailing my sword at the “MANNY MANNY” business. I was weak and tired and I blame them!
Ok alot of your observations are based on hindsight but ill try to play devils advocate
1) Omar was out of money by the time he landed ollie as he already paid for krod. One thing you have to keep in mind is taht Omar is an employee just like all of us and has to play by teh bosses rules. The only other talent available was abreu and someone else that wasnt very significant. Omar wanted Ibanez but philly beat him to the punch and offered him a good deal. Omar had to depend on murph as he was not that bad a defender last year and proved he can hit at a major league level. Considering we already had delgado/beltran/wright for power, Murphy had upside to hit on a consistant basis. Obviously given the way the season unfolded, in hindsight omar should have grabbed anybody he could to man LF.
2) Pelf finished strong last year and no reason not to depend on him. Maine was pitching through pain last year and with the surgery he could have returned to his 07 success. Ollie was a toss up(i never agreed with the signing but w/e) but NOBODY expeced him to be this bad. Ollie is a 50/50 kind of guy but to be that ineffective was unexpected. Livan has been a plesent surprise but given our rotation he was going to be our #5 as we had a revolving door from that spot for years now and livan will give us a fighting chance at least and eat innings.
Nobody could have predicted what has befallen this team and you have to remember and analyze omars offseason with the information we had then..not the information we have now.
Agreed for the most part except if I was the GM I would be screaming and crying like a baby, even if we were out of money, to sign Dunn for that price. I would have pleaded with the Wilpons till I was blue in the face.
Agreed…Yes and with the wholes that might have developed over the season Omar had that extra 5 mil or so to make a move. Just too many injuries a damn shame
As my son could attest to, crying doesn’t get anything.
I wanted dunn bad while the whole ridiculous Manny thing was going on. And how would that have worked it seeing he has missed most of the season.
To be fair to Omar, we don’t really know what went on behind closed doors between him and the Wilpons. I like to think that he was urging them to let him add Dunn’s contract, but my faith in Omar is paper thin at best.
Teahan could assume the Tatis role next season when all the rest are healthy.
Agreed. If he is not the starting 1B depending on how the offseason goes.
That’s a good point too.
Not sure why, but I’d feel more comfortable going into the season with Teahan starting at 1B than Tatis (not to say that I wouldn’t keep Tatis around on the bench).
If Teahen is considered the Mets starting 1B going forward, that puts a lot of pressure on the acquisition/development of a power hitting corner OF/C.
Well the problem is who IS available for 1B? You could go get LaRoche I guess. Nick Johnson for next year is very risky considering.
No distinctly appetizing names out there, but as I briefly discussed with Wanny yesterday, the Mets at least have some borderline potential solutions in house for 1B, they have none for power hitting corner OF. So if they are somehow constricted financially and can only get one from outside, I vote for some Evans/Murphy (currently thinking heavier on the Evans) action at 1B and a bona fide OF, of which there are also few FA if I recall correctly. Bottom line, 1 COF or 1B HAS to be a legit power threat next year.
That is why I am looking at Teahen, his salary is not going to keep us from getting an OF.
I think they would need to do that anyway (even if Delgado or LaRoche were playing 1B). But indeed, Teahan alone makes it absolutely imperative to get a bopper in the corners.
I don’t see where that is coming from, though. The Mets have to just open the vault to a guy like Jason Bay and pray for the best.
I would be fine with a LaRoche/Teahan platoon at 1B, with Teahan picking up at bats at 2B, 3B and the outfield. (This assumes that the Mets are unable to find another 1B).
NO PLATOONS PLEASE!
LOL.
But you know Jerry will platoon whomever and for whatever reason anyway!
Jerry only platoons b/c he doesnt have everyday players to use. Murphy, Tatis, Evans, Cora, Santos, Sheffield and even Church (when he’s not on a hot streak) are all fringe players.
All capitals against platoons from the guy who recommended Hairston???
that’s funny too!
And has a team with Church on it?
Big article in the Philly paper today about the Phils needing to go al lin on Halladay. I actually think thye might.
They do have some interesting prospects, certainly enough to get a deal done, although it will probably clean them out of top shelf guys (maybe leave 1?)
Don’t overlook the fact that the Phils are really the time with a short window. They are older overall then the mets, and their “core” is older too. If they can’t get over the top in the next couple of years (again, of course), they will be looking at rebuiolding with the guys they didn’t trade (some pitchers and a couple of OFs)
By next year, everyone on offense will be in their 30s (except Vicky, who I think will be 29). Werth is what, 32/33 already? Ibanez is old.
Also, in the rotation, only Hamels and Happ are signed for next year (I think Moyer runs out this year, but is another year of him a good thing?). Myers and Blanton are FA.
Utley already had 1 hip surgery, etc.
So, if I was them, I would roll the dice and hope the position guys can hold up for another 2 years, and worry about replacing them with the next batch of prospects to come along.
I agree, if I were them and they had the money I would. They don’t have to resign him if they can’t afford him. Plus Myers comes off the books next year.
they are up in payroll this yer, but supposedly can squeeze in a little.
Next year they have room. Eaton, Geoff Jenkins and Myers all come off the books (blanton too I think)
That’s basically what our sister (brother?) Phillies blog on NLEC said yesterday, only they said it in the context of adding Halladay, not Holliday.
Who said Holliday?
My blurry mis reading vision did. Point is our sister blog beat the Philly paper to the idea of the finite window and the need for the big acquisition, kudos to the blog.
This is what I’m referring to:
http://www.nleastchatter.com/philliesphandom/2009/07/07/phils-have-right-pieces-to-get-halladay/
good peice. And no, I didnt see it prior to posting! The paper also never focused on a short window, more of the (like a met fan!) trying to win this year no matter what idea.
He might, however, be overextimating how long their windw really is.
Wonder if Tor. really would require a ML guy too, vs. a prospect with more upside? Happ is doing fine, but he isn’t really projected to have that much upside.
not me.
Great post. Halladay makes all the sense in the world for them, especially considering that Howard and Rollins have already shown signs of decline.
A package headed by 2 of Kyle Drabek, Jason Donald (who would step in and start at SS) and Michael Taylor might get it done. Prospects like Carlos Carrasco or Lou Marson might also be included.
I’d guess it would go this way: Donald (as the major league ready prospect), Drabek (the high upside player) and Carrasco (Carrasco as the near MLB ready pitcher) and maybe a lower level minor leaguer.
I think Philly can pull this off without Taylor involved because Toronto is so deep in the outfield.
if there was ever a team that will be in it for halladay..it would be the phills
I have no problem blaming someone, I can boo without a problem as well and would have loved killing Omar if we failed this year when healthy but the injuries are too many to overcome at this point.
I hate the fact that Omar didnt have the balls to cut Castillo and change the culture of this team a bit with Hudson and would have killed him if Luis had cost us this season some how!!
I would have killed Omar if Offense was the problem this year when everyone was in the lineup for not getting another bat the last 2 years. I am still pissed a guy who hits 40 Hr’s and 100 Rbi’s was on the market for peanuts!!
We are way passed these issues at this point
That is one move I am glad he did not make. Hudson for 20+ million for 1 year? No thanks.
What?? Dont even know how to argue that.. more like 10 mil and the impact, both with production and the message to the team, would have been and most all agree, just what the doctor ordered.
Actually I am sorry 26 million+
I don’t agree that he didn’t have the balls, I would say he didn’t have the $18 million to throw away, plus the necessary cash for the replacement re:Castillo.
just to be fair, Hudson and Abreu wen tofr “peanuts”.
Dunn got 20mill over 2 years, so Omar would have had to exceed that. Once you are into 7 figures and ultiple years, it ain’t peanuts to anyone but the yankees.
I was a lot more interested in DUnn when you could supposedly have him for 1 year, 5 mill.
Hudson did NOT go for peanuts. 8 million+ is what he will be paid.
One and done.
While Luis
Achesandpains
has collected 12Mil w/another
12Mil to come
the next 2yrs.
Agreed, but that does not warrant dumping him and signing Hudson. That means you just paid Hudson 26 million for 1 year.
not really.
you paid him 14 for 1 year, and have to add 6mill to the salaries of the 2B in 2010 and 2011.
SOmetimes though, the money is worth it! Hard to put a price on the benefit of not having slappy on the team (and yes, to me, it is worth 6mill/year of the Wilpons money!)
No they still have to buy him out. So still you paid 26 million to replace Castillo with Hudson for 1 year.
If you were going to spend that much should you not have gotten a MUCH better player? You could have gotten Manny with that.
Exactly, plus as you noted above the team would certainly still be paying at best a significant chunk of Castillo’s remaining contract.
he got 8? For some reason, I thought he went for like 3.
3 plus easy incentives.
Really there have been 2 problems the last couple of years, that Omar did not adequately deal with.
1) Pitching depth, in the rotation and spill over to the pen. Yeah, the pen killed down the stretch, but the SP was dumping too much burden on them. Other than Maine in 2007 and Santana in 2008 (game 161 each tiem), the SPs hung the pen out to dry.
2) better complimentary players. The core ws fine, but usually the supporting cast was too weak. And that is a big reason why they stink so bad now when the core went down. The cupporting guys still here weren’t good enough to carry much load.
The Mets have Church, Castillo, Murphy/tatis as support to the core.
The Phils have Werth, Feliz, Victorino.
You pick which guys you want to be your replacement core!
Not a fair comparison Stick.
Cora is much better than the IF backups the Phillies have. Their catching situation stinks too. Dobbs has been horrible. Phillies would love to have Sheff right now and Cora.
those are bench guys. And I won’t argue that the Phils have a weak bench, at least beyond PH (alhtough DObbs has been doing pretty good as a fill in).
I was looking at the starting team, core and supproting cast.
Ruiz and coste are probably a wash to the Mets catchers. Lets just say that both teams have guys that (in honor of casey) are there to prevent a lot of passed balls.
Feliz is no better than Church.
And you are forgeting the SP.
well, that doesn’t favor the mets this year either!
anyway, I was adressing a point specifically about Omar failing to support his core with better complimentary players. He seems to think thta 4 guys is plenty, and it doesn’t matter how bad the other 4 are.
Ok,if you say so!
Not that you like stats
.290 .339 .409 .748 this year after a .705 OPS last year. Compare those to Church and tell me why Feliz is better?
Thank You Stick! I’m not saying ANYONE could have
replacements for the Stars we’ve lost BUT as I posted
a month ago,a couple/three
professional MLB players
instead of Murphy/Evans/FMart
could well have been the diff
in 4,5,6 games the past month
or two.Maybe putting us at 43-39 OR 44-38,totally changing the feel/outlook of this season.
You can’t count Fmart or Evans, they were not even supposed to be here.
But they are.
Agreed because of the MANY injuries that you ignore.
Unreal. Just unreal.
The Mets should sign Jason Bay next season and store him away at AAA in case the 4th, 5th and 6th outfielders get hurt again.
Bullpen last 2 years and injuries this year. Very cut and dry and simple to me.
b/t/w the Philly Inquirer reports
The Sillies are going hard after
not only Halladay BUT Sherrill from
the O’s as well.
Good for them, they will run out of prospects and money soon. They won’t be able to afford Howard, Halladay, Hamels, Utley etc.
Maybe BUT could well
have 2 or 3 Championships by then.
Right because most teams repeat, or is it that basically no team repeats?
Besides they will run out of money THIS offseason. Think how much Howard got this past year.
Think about how much money
winning generates.
Not enough.
howard, hamels, Ibanez and utley are all signed for at least 2 years after this one. Howard and Utley also have reyes/wright type deals to buy out their arb years (not sure about any FA time).
I also don’t think they would try for a big extension on Hallady. They would probably just worry about keeping him through 2010, then if he leaves, get the 2 draft picks.
They might run out of prospects, but who knows, maybe they are smart enough to regonize how short (and rare) a window like this is, and are trying to maximize the WS appearances, even if it eventually comes back to haunt them.
Hey, one thing the Phils fans know, it’s how to live through the lean years! And winning 2-3 WS rings in a 5 year span can buy a lot of good will while rebuilding.
Then Halladay never waives the no trade clause? Would you? Would you move to Citizens Bank to audition for your next contract?
That trade comes with a Santana like (maybe not as many years) type extension for Halladay.
Roy Halladay
ain’t Tim Redding.
He can get outs
anywhere.You’d think given
how good the Phillies
team and clubhouse is he’d welcome
the move.
Not to mention,
Moving to the NL,with the defending Champs
who are still likely the best team in the NL.
These facts should only help him
to make
money.
Also,wheres Toronto
going with the
Best 3 teams in the AL i/f/o the in their own division?
I am not saying he is Tim Redding. But if you were Halladay and have 1.5 years left before you get your last big contract would you rather audition in a pitchers park or a hitters little league field? Now if they extend his contract at the time of the trade, it makes perfect sense for him.
Halladay is smart enough to know how seldom a National League team wins back-to-back WS. If that’s what he truly wants to do, he knows not to go to Philly.
This is a business. Halladay is not waving his no-trade clause for nothing. Not while he’s on top of his game and his value will never be better. And not while he will have all the leverage over Philly management.
sure. He has made a ton of money already, and (unless his arm falls off) will make a bunch more in his next deal.
At 32/33 (when the deal finishes) he is quite likely to value a good shot at a WS ring more than caring where he pitches.
ANd if he is really that good, it won’t matter what park he is in.
besides, CBP has a bogus wrap doesnt it? I thought the metrics say it plays fairly neutral?
My amateur understanding is that overall the rap is overstated, but that there are one or two specific OF areas that are clearly “home run chutes” which produce HRs on what would just be fly ball outs elsewhere.
Stick you still don’t get it here. Halladay is pitching the best he ever has. He can demand the contract extension or just keep auditioning. Sure a WS matters but this is his career too.
If by “keep auditioning” you are suggesting stay in Toronto, did you see Halladay’s interview yesterday on MLB network? Obviously it is open to interpretation, because he didn’t exactly scream “trade me” but he basically said “I love Toronto, but I also want to win, I’m 32 and this team is in a really tough division.” I interpreted it as “trade me to a contender please.”
I hope the Yankees get him and get knocked out 1st round lol Can you imagine!! If they got him with that team and didnt win the WS I think the franchise would have to move to Hawaii!!
thats their achillies heal…i expect them to go hard after them…if they somehow aquire them, they will be very tough to beat
Would acquiring Halladay (as one of the few teams he makes sense for and that can afford him and have what to trade for him) make Ruben Amaro, Jr. a genius? Or would this fall into the category of “not screwing it up?”
Omar type situation there. Depends on if they could resign him.
No relevence since they already sit on
one championship and
are leading the division now.
LOL.
Pure comedy.
The sidebars are making me chase my own tail.
mattsblog.com would shut this down!
Good to know
some fellow
die-hards don’t
believe the goal of all this is to win
it all.Personally,
I’ve suffered enough with this teams since 1973.
I don’t care about next yr
or 2011.
I want to enjoy
a Championship
season and the
one that follows before
I’m an old man.
You guys might be a little young hence you
likely have more time.
Life really is
short and then
you do die.
I’m 43. I have also suffered since 1973. I would like to enjoy a championship soon too, but I don’t expect the franchise to cater to the fact that I should eat better and exercise more. I know you understand that a team can’t just win. Lots of things must break right.
You guys must already be experiencing dementia… what happened to 1986?!?!?
And I’m 34 and have lived through plenty of Mets misery myself.
Overall. Yes there was 1986, but the only point I was trying to make was that while I have been following the team since 1973 just like Fongy, I am not in “must win now, anything else worthless” mode. I didn’t make that point very well, hopefully this makes up for that.
Who here does not want to win a Championship Fong? Come on, don’t talk down to us.
Sorry,that wasn’t my intent.
I know, but we are all pissed and angry Fong. We know you don’t like Omar, but the point still is that no one could have prepared for these injuries. You can’t try and rationalize why we stink this year without including these unpredictable damn injuries.
wouldnt make him a genious as its obvious the phills need pitching
In other news Dykstry files for Bankruptcy:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4313487
Should the Mets try and get Halladay to keep him from the Phillies?
Fmart, Holt, and Niese?
Is that enough?
I don’t really know what the Blue Jays are looking for. If that’s what they want, I’d try to substitute someone for Holt but if they wouldn’t budge then I’d have to do it.
I don’t even know if they would want F-Mart with Wells and Rios — signed forever with likely untradeable contracts — and perhaps better young outfielders in Lind and Snider.
True. They need a SS and other SP. Flores is too far away. Again, if Reyes was healthy?
Trading Reyes seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Would they win with Halladay and without Reyes? I’m not so sure.
Don’t know, but it would change the team. Gotta remember besides the BP, Reyes is the one that does not show up in September. Sorry but I gotta go there.
That’s a fair point.
I just think about having Halladay, Johan, Pelfrey at the top of a rotation is more valuable than having Reyes. I think. Maybe.
Depends which pelfrey!
Eh, I think Pelfrey is going to be a solid 2/3 starter for years to come. Still young and has the stuff to do it.
Really hard to answer because I believe if Reyes were healthy the team would have far less of a need for the acquisition of Halladay because they would just generally be in a better position.
If Reyes was healthy and the Phillies were about to get Halladay would you trade him for Halladay?
no
From ESPN:
NEW YORK — Lenny Dykstra, the former star center fielder for the New York Mets and Philadelphia Phillies, has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, court records show.
Dykstra, 46, has no more than $50,000 in assets and between $10 million and $50 million in liabilities, according to a petition filed Tuesday with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the Central District of California.
Jonathan Hayes, one of Dykstra’s lawyers, had no immediate comment.
Dykstra’s filing comes in the wake of some 20 lawsuits he faces tied to his activities as a financial entrepreneur, including The Players Club, a glossy magazine he had helped launch, according to published reports.
The bankruptcy petition shows several banks among Dykstra’s largest unsecured creditors, including units of JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Bank of America Corp.
Known as “Nails” and “The Dude,” Dykstra played for 12 years with the Mets and the Phillies before retiring in 1996 with a lifetime .285 batting average and 81 home runs.
He won a World Series with the Mets in 1986, and with the Phillies was runner-up in the National League MVP voting in 1993. The Phillies lost the World Series that year.
My heroes always make me proud.
A yr ago this time
he was rocking and rolling.Giving financial advise on
CNBC and Neil Cavutos
show.Not surprising
though from a phoney
and a cheat like Lenny
D..Although,I did love
him as a player!
I WANT MEANINFUL BASEBALL NOW!!!!!!!!!!
THIS IS A TOUGH YEAR….IT WASNT SUPPOSE TO HAPPEN LIKE THIS….
Agreed, but life happens.
It could have just as easily happen to Philly, Utley, Howard and Rollins going down at the same time. Where would they be with Dobbs, Bruntlett and a rookie starting instead of those 3?
as bad as the mets. Maybe worse.
Would have to be worse. Their backups are MUCH worse than the Mets and they win most of their games with offense.
I agree its not a competition though…Yes almost all teams when losing 3-4 Core players would be finished and that is ort of my point…IT SUCKS
We have come full circle this year guys!! Meaning we are looking at Ollie Perez the man who basically started all this negativity and the first to go down, to save our season!!! How ironic or a better word would be pathetic!! I say he is boo’ed and exits by the 4th to put a wrap on this season!
HOW FITTING
Who is looking for him to be a savior?
I expect him to be good the 2nd half but him alone saves nothing.
He alone wouldn’t save us, but getting some solid outings from Ollie would go a long way to helping us ’stay afloat’ while we wait for the DL to empty itself. Currently constructed, with the lack of offense and total inability to field, we need really good pitching performances to keep us in games. If the miracle of miracles could happen and Ollie could ‘put it all together’, we could have a chance at staying in this until Beltran/Delgado get back. (Honestly, with the cortizone injection and lack of actual work by Reyes, I don’t know if I expect him to come back at all this season).
The problem, of course, is that we need miracles to stay in it. Let’s set our sights to next year and hope Omar can get the supporting cast our core needs. (I won’t prattle on about rebuilding cause that’s not happening)
But with this offense there is no way we can stay afloat with just good pitching. And unfortunately according to Omar, Reyes and Beltran are still ahead of Delgado and neither are close.
Well, when I said ‘put it all together’ about Ollie I meant that he became a consistent pitcher with great stuff, i.e. total miracle that will never actually happen. With great pitching even our offense can win some games.
Unfortunately, our pitching hasn’t been that great recently and our offense is now 100% punchless with Wright tearing up the K column in the box score.
We’re gonna have a TON of holes to fill for next season….
One benefit of having a strong Ollie (I know it’s a stretch) is that he doesn’t rely on his defense as much as others. Because this defense is not helping anyone.
Absolutely great point. That hadn’t occurred to me. The defense alone has cost us a handful of games at least.
Just saying Trs86..no need to over analyze every word! Im saying we are almost at rock bottom and we have Ollie starting tonight.
Gotta say, some real good conversation going on here. One could get an education on here.
LOL. Actually kind of like Metsblog from 2 years ago.
Be careful we all may
get moderated!
Especially me!
Nah. You are fine. Just stating your opinion and blaming Omar for world hunger but nothing wrong with that. It’s just a point of view.
NOT for
World hunger!
BUT for
the unfulfilled hunger of REAL,
DIE-HARD,LONG SUFFERING MET FANS like me
to Win a
Championship.
Yeah, don’t blame him there either. Not many have, even the Yankee’s have not since making their payroll the size of 2 Mets teams.
One would of course have to want to get an education, but yes they could. I learn just how wrong I am about something almost everyday here! On those rare days when I learn that I’m right about something, let’s just say I lack humility.
Like me with Hairston. Most likely I was wrong after looking at his over all stats. It’s just right now we need somebody, anybody better than what we have.
We can get better players than what we have from the Long Island Ducks.
Agreed, I just think right now Omar should get some players early that can help us hold and then see where we are in 3 weeks at the deadline. You can always trade those guys you get or others if you are out of it.
True Dat!
Except the great Ryan Church ofcourse!
Did you practice being an ignoramus?
While I disagreed specifically with Hairston, I agree with the general outside the box thinking you displayed in bringing him up (which was really what I was attempting in bringing up Pierre the other day). This team, from it’s fans as well as from it’s management, could surely benefit from more outside the box thinking. We may not hit on the solution right away, but we haven’t stopped trying and neither should they.
Agreed.
I got caught up with this years numbers. .300 with 10 HR would be an improvement right now.
Still like Teahen, Rios, Lopez, etc.
The more I do this (have these types of discussions) with you guys, the more I realize there is no perfect solution and it’s just a matter of finding an improvement that outweighs any negative.
Teahen is versatile and cheap, doesn’t really provide a lot offensively, but is still an upgrade.
Rios is a good offensive and defensive player, who comes with a huge contract that he isn’t worth, but is still an upgrade.
Lopez is a inconsistent hitter but good enough when he’s “on,” and although a sporadic fielder his offense would still be an upgrade.
None of these guys brings what any of the missing core guys could bring, but they all bring more than what we’ve got now.
Omar could have had
Pierre for
nothing
3 months
ago.Not interested.Thanks BUT no
thanks.
We’ve got Murphy&
Reed!
Pierre for nothing? Look at his contract. He is Castillo in the OF with a worse contract. Not saying he is not better, but not worth that contract.
Besides, who are you benching for him? He can’t play anything but LF.
Speed and Defense,after all.
09:$10M, 10:$10M, 11:$8.5M
Shew.
Pierre is a lousy defender.
And his speed is made somewhat useless by the fact that he gets on base so infrequently (believe it or not his 50 games filling in for Manny where not representative of his career norms of an approximate .330 OBP).
The Mets need gap hitters in this big park. Not two Luis Castillos.
AMEN!!! No to Pierre.
Yeah,what am I thinking!
Wouldn’t have helped!
We’re better off w/o any help!
Who needs it?!
We are afterall a robust 37-43
in our last 80games.
Right on course for a big 75Win
season!…Nice!…Gotta Love it!
Lets Go Mets!
Do you know there IS a next year?
I want to win this year AND then too. Not tie the team for this year and next with that terrible contract for Castillo part 2.
Haha…on a serious note though at what point to we start to really pay attention to Wright and what is going on with him. Im sorry i am not buying he changed his swing to hit line drives because of Citi Field. If this was the case, which its not, wouldnt it be logical to assume the K’s would come down not go up. I mean we all know HR hitters typically and historically strike out more. He is also hitting for zero power on the road. Last night against Mota was ridiculous and I couldnt believe what I was watching. Mota continued to throw 93-94 mph down the middle and wright couldnt hit the ball. Ouch
I really hope this .320 avergage isnt masking a bigger more complex problem. I agree, still a little early to hit the panic button on him. He has put together great years since he came up but…WHAT THE HELL IS HIS ISSUE!~
Just saying Trs86..no need to over analyze every word! Im saying we are almost at rock bottom and we have Ollie starting tonight. Pretty amazing. If Redding was pitching half way decent Ollie would not be up here yet, for sure. Yes I agree Dark..we need anyone and everyone to help us stay afloat. If Ollie gets us a win that would be great. Im hoping we get to the break not being more than 5 out.