Post Game: Offense Is Futile
Posted by GravediggerHebner on 10:29pm, Friday July 10th 2009
NY Mets (left, foreground)
Having allowed 21 runs over 14 innings in his last 3 starts, Bronson Arroyo took the mound against the popgun AAA lineup of the New York Mets with a swagger and a grin (or was it a smirk) and proceeded to throw 9 shutout innings, giving up only 4 singles, one of the bunt variety, and one a blooper hit by opposing pitcher Fernando Nieve, whose own quality start went for naught.
In fact the offense was so futile it couldn’t even beat a team managed by Dusty Baker, one of the most widely disrespected managers in baseball. There’s even a website called “Fire Dusty Baker!”
I don't have photo shop, things like this are all over the internets
I won’t even mention David Wright’s double clutch on his high throw home that bounced off a leaping Brian Schneider’s glove that was liberally scored a steal of home for Brandon Phillips. Oh wait, I just did. Things are going so poorly for the Mets that part of the stadium fell over in disgust.
"Look out below, Washington!"
The Mets have not hit a home run or stolen a base in their last 7 games, something that hasn’t happened in 30 years. The Washington Nationals are beginning to dream of 4th place. Teddy Roosevelt might win the Presidents Race before the Mets hit their next homer!
"Let The Mets Win!"
Au revoir, Ryan Church. Bienvenue, Jeff Francoeur.
Cincinnati Reds 3, New York Mets 0. Please visit cbssports.com for the box score.
Welcome to the Mets Frenchy…no pressure
I thank you, Sir, for these post game wrap ups. I eagerly await these every night, just so I have a reason to smile after another God awful Met loss.
3 shutouts in less than a week. What more can you say????
So…our offense is non existent so we trade a competent .280 hitter for a kid who thinks OBP is overrated. And I quote:
“If on-base percentage is so important, then why don’t they put it on the scoreboard?”
Also, according to Ted Berg:
‘You’ve probably heard by now how Francoeur is a great defensive player. That used to be true, but in 2008 and 2009, according to both UZR and Bill James’ plus-minus, Francoeur has been a below average right fielder due to his lack of range.’
I am completely baffled. This trade obviously has nothing to do with getting help for this year and everything to do with dumping Ryan Church.
Seems like they could’ve gotten more for Church, even if that just means a prospect.
I think some of us are vastly overvaluing Ryan Church. He’s a decent player and a guy I liked on the team, but I doubt he’ll ever hit 29 homers or drive in 100 runs (something Francoeur has done twice). I know the knocks against the guy, bad OBP, he’s struggled for more than a year now, but he’s 25 years old, not much older than a prospect would be. I like the move, it’s a roll of the dice but I didn’t view Church as a major part of the team’s future by any stretch of the imagination.
I don’t know. With apologies to those avid readers of this blog who will have noticed that I’ve posted essentially this in each of the last 3 threads, but what did we expect to get for a 30 year old corner outfielder whose typical full season of production (should he remain healthy to even play that full season) is .278 BA 14 HR 71 RBI?
And one thing the team could definitely use is power, and Francoeur still has that power potential. Heck, he’s got as many homers this year (5) as Wright. I don’t know if this move will work or not, but I can see why it was made and don’t have a problem with it at all. I just don’t see Church getting much of a prospect in return.
It’s not so much that I’m over valuing Church. If this was a trade for the future of the Mets, then I understand the roll of the dice - somewhat as I still feel we could have done a bit better.
But with this horrid offense right now, this trade is almost as good as starting to wave the white flag for this season.
Unfortunately,
I think it might be time to wave that white flag and see what you can get for any veteran. It would be one thing if they knew Reyes, Beltran and Delgado were going to be back soon after the All-Star break, but it could be early August before any of those three returns. There are a few things I’d like to see and one of them is bringing back Jon Niese to replace Livan at some point. I still say you give Livan another start or two to see if he can recapture the magic and possibly boost his sagging trade value, but if he gets torched, they’re just going to have to cut him. I’d also dangle Pedro Feliciano out there and see if you could get a young outfield bat in return. Contending teams would love to have a lefty specialist as good as Pedro, so at least explore dealing him if the right match comes along. Hope Sheffield gets hot again and maybe an AL team comes calling, needing a DH. Omar has got to bring in some younger players, either to help the major-league club or bolster the minor-league depth that keeps giving us the likes of Argenis Reyes on the team.
I think some of you are vastly overvaluing Jeff Frenchy. He’s TERRIBLE. Even in his quote “good years” his OBP was always low and his slugging was never spectacular.
One thing we have to remember here. Church didn’t even reach the majors until age 25. That’s how old Francoeur is now. I honestly believe there is room for improvement here. And if I’m wrong, the Mets didn’t lose a significant part of their future. Let’s see how it plays out.
I don’t know,
Just two short years ago, Francoeur was considered a rising star in this game. I know he’s fallen off considerably, but that talent has got to still be there somewhere. Just wish we had someone like Rudy Jaramillo as a hitting coach. Look what that guy did with Andruw Jones this year….
Yeah, I don’t know why they wanted to unload church, but getting a prospect instead would hae been more logical.
And if Omar decided that Frnechy was a good idea) and I have no idea why), I figureyou could have had him for a non-prospect, just to take him off the braves hands. THey really wanted him gone.
So, you could have had Francour and Church, and an actual OF with real D ability.
I am afraid to see what the other big moves Omar has coming are. he did promise a shake up and more trades.
I am OK with writing off 2009 (barring a miracle), but I really don’t want to have to give up on 2010 and 2011 already.
How will Francoeur handle the New York spotlight? (I’d pose the same question if he were traded to Philly). This acquisition has Roger Cedeno written all over it… if the guy continues to struggle.
Who knows? The guy might actually get motivated now that there’s a crowd that actually gives a crap what’s going on.
It’s a legit question. Of course, are you talking about the first incarnation of Roger Cedeno who was a brilliant Met, or the 2nd one when he was an awful Met? When the Mets acquired Cedeno via trade he was great. When they signed him as a free agent, he was terrible. The Mets just acquired Jeff Francouer via trade, so I think you’re stuck with the trade Cedeno for your comparison.
I totally agree with ASod.
Church is mediocre and inconsistent and cannot stay healthy.
Francoeur has already had far more productive seasons than Church and is 5 years younger.
A gamble yes, but not a huge one as Church will very likely never be more than he is right now and Francoeur has already been better and may be again.
Keep going Omar…maybe we can trade Jerry for Cox next and he and Ryan can be reunited and it would feel so good.
Can I get traded to ATL ?
Just announced: Metfreak dealt to the Braves for a termite-infested tomahawk and cash considerations.
LOL Cool good luck with the termites
Yeah, Omar really got fleeced on that one.
Omar is confused he thought Francour was a hispanic name .Oh darn another white boy,
I am getting sick of reading your silly posts, which are getting worse.
Omar trades a white guy for a white guy and a dingbat has to dredge up the idiotic and inaccurate Latino drivel.
I cant believe some of what I’m reading here! Jeff Francouer for
Ryan Church? And this angers some
Met fans? Look obviously somethings
been wrong w/Frenchy for the last yr
and a half BUT given Age,contract,
skills and history..compared to Church
this is a steal! There may be no bigger critic of Omar than me BUT
AGAIN,this is a steal! If Frenchy
returns to form/realizes his potential
Omar picked up a pretty good ballplayer for a platoon/4th OFer
whos injury prone and hasn’t shown
a whole lot since the head injuries
of last season.Mind you,Francoeur
Was almost made the Braves CFer
last yr after Andruw Jones left
(for the critics of his range) AND
was later almost dealt last yr for
to K.C.for Greinke(for the critics
of his “potential”).PLUS the Braves
send cash to make up the diff on salaries.Listen fellas,seasons about over for us and Omar{because of budget
and past bad moves)has his hands tied.
So how can he improve for next season?
If Frenchy comes around,great! IF not
whats the loss here? Ryan Church?
Dime a dozen,journeyman OFer/platoon
corner guy with limited power& a.270
hitter? Who obviously wasn’t happy
here. Are you guys kidding or what?
B/T/W,this also closes the book on
the Milladge rush him out the door
trade. AND on that day(11/30/07)
if you had called asking for Francouer
for Milladge,The Braves would have laughed then hung up! Whats not to like here? As for other moves,well
we’ll see. BUT good job Omar in moving
dead weight for potential!
Fong u never stop amazing me!
Fong praising Omar?
Are you sure this deal didn’t fall into Omar’s lap? j/k
The Earth is officially off its axis!
No I dont my friend!
’cause if The Braves just
wanted to get rid of
Frenchy(Dont ya just
love the nickname?)
That badly to just give
him to us,then something to REALLY,
REALLY wrong w/him.
AND if this guy turned
out to be a juicer or junkie and fades away
Well then Omar should
have had better scouting. But whats
the Risk?
And for Ryan Church?
C’mon now!
Not to mention that Church has
shown the tendencies of a Bone-Head at times Which this
season has directly resulted in 2or3 Loses this yr..
Has he Won more than 2or3 gms
by himself?? I Think Not!
Lets Stop making him out to be
Don Mattingly. I mean, he may
not be Danny Heep afterall!
Omar,
Good Solid Baseball move!Now
Lets get Luis Aches&Pains’
contract shipped out Next!
IF you talked like this more often, I would have to say your wrong! You are dead on with this I don’t get how suddenly of all people Ryan Church suddenly became coveted.
Sorry I took so long, I’ve been writing my “draft and follow” for tomorrow morning, and watching Jonathan Sanchez throw a no-hitter.
I agree with you. You covered a few reasons that had already occurred to me then reinforced them with some other things I hadn’t thought of. Worst case we gave up a 30 year old corner OF who was not “corner outfield productive” on a gamble that of course may not pay off, but if it does, the power and production will be a huge improvement. If it doesn’t, no sweat really.
You just can’t make some people happy.
They make a trade that by all accounts is just looking for lightning in a bottle that is all this is and people say, what that’s it?
You hear rumors of Halladay being available and you get no not him we will have to give up too much.
Minaya is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.
Church will probably go to Atl and succeed and bash our heads in but in the end it just was not happening here. Blame Manuel if you want but the result is the same.
Oh and Steveo I am sure you jest but the whole Minaya thought he was another hispanic player thing is getting old real fast. It is a tough season to say the least let’s not make it worse by bringing ethnicity into it. No good can come of it.
Tonight was tough guys we are seeing our season slowly get further and further away. Let’s try to have a clear and open mind Church being traded or kept this year considering all that has happened is but a small scene in this horrible movie we call “The New York Mets 2009 Season”.
I just learned about this
@like 11:oo when i put on
MLBTV so its all fresh.
Just also thinking
who knows?,you could always
include him in a package
for someone we’re not even
thinking about right now.
Ya know,there are alot of
Petersons out ther.I’d Bet
their are a dozen Hitting
Coach who think they can
“fix ‘em” in 15mins..
THIS is what I meant about
Risk/reward.
Minaya refuses to give up the farm so you get this trade now can francour help? Put it like this how much worse can it get?
All it takes is a spark maybe francour can get a 2 out hit who knows.
He walks in the
door and hes in
the middle of the lineup. Says all this is to say about whats
going on.
Church? eh.
Hes gone what?
14-70-280 last
yr and ahalf
w/the eqiv of
a seasons stats.
He went 15-70-272 in ‘07.
Which b/t/w,
was when he was finally able to stick
in the bigs
AT 28! Can’t hit Lefties&
has the coconut
issues.No Brainer!
Either we fold
or win.
What can be lost?3rdplace
to Atl?
Fong I agree with you 100 pct on this one!
We traded a platoon OF for a better player who is 5 yrs younger!
You call Church a platoon player… but have you seen Frenchy’s splits v. righties?
And people have criticized Church’s home run total… but his SLG pctg. is even higher than Francoeur’s?
Defensive stats also show a regression for Francoeur, indicating that Church is even better in that aspect.
Maybe Francoeur has room for growth. He has the potential to hit more home runs and is still young enough to learn. But his career has been in regression at an age when he is supposed to improve. He is the most undisciplined hitter in the NL. I guess we’ll see.
But it matters not whom he was ALMOST traded before a year before he had yet another pitiful season.
Now all I am waiting to see is if Church will chirp about his former manager or players I can’t wait to read “Braves Baseball Blog”.
chances are Mr. Francessa was probably right…
From Alex Nelson at Metsgeek:
“Now, if the Mets made the trade to score some free Delta miles, great. If they made the trade to improve their right field situation, they may be in for a bit of a surprise.
Seriously, Frenchy is hitting .250/.282/.352 this season. That’s no better than he did last season when he hit .239/.294/.359. At the bat, he’s an out machine with a little bit of pop. And however bad Ryan Church has performed this season, his line is better across the board this season, and Francoeur has only once topped Church in either on-base average or slugging percentage–that being when he slugged .549 as a rookie in 2005, a mark he has since failed to come within 100 points of.
Defensively, I fail to see much of an improvement, either. His arm is spectacular, but he’s never provided much in the way of range. UZR saw him as well below average last year, and no more than average this year, pulled up by his arm rating in both seasons.
I suppose Francoeur does have more upside than Church, thanks to being five years younger and possessing more athleticism. But at this point, 2600-plus plate appearances into his career, I just don’t see him ever meeting that ceiling, or coming very close. It’s certainly possible that he does, but it just isn’t likely.
This one’s worse than a head-scratcher for me; frankly, I’m angry.”
BTW here is a link to an excellent article from the AJC:
http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2009/07/10/the-francoeur-trade-a-sad-but-necessary-ending/
good article, and I liked the comments.
Nice to see that the Mets arent the only fan base with a cadre of “fire the idiot GM” fans. Also aquite a few wanted to see Bobby COx and Terry Pendelton (hitting coach) tossed. WOnder if they wold rade even up for manuel and HoJo?
You wanted change, well you got change. What you say, you don’t like this change? This is because real change requires breaking some eggs and right now no one is ready for that. Just do like that great philosopher once said,
“Don’t worry, be happy”