Off season Met Economics are making me pessimistic.
Posted by gonzowill on 8:00am, Saturday November 7th 2009
So what’s the last thing I want to hear the day I have to watch the Yankees march down the Canyon of Heroes? The Mets love Randy Wolf.
Randy Wolf, does that sound like a number 2 starter that will get us to the post-season?
This means that September interview with Jeff Wilpon and Omar Minaya was just a ploy to get Mets fans off the ledge and back into the electric chair.
I’ll use the Yankees for an example, and yes I know that we can’t compare to them in terms of money but they are a good example of what a team needed to do. The Yankees went into last years off season with a wish list-two pitchers and Mark Teixeira. They spent the money and now they are covered with ticker tape.
I know the Mets don’t have Yankee money, but didn’t Jeff Wilpon say that the Mets would be competitive this year and that there is money to spend? I did hear him say that, right?
According to Metsblog who cited a The St. Louis Post Dispatch, the Cardinals are making the acquiring of Matt Holliday a “high priority”. Oh no, that means the Mets might have to pay a little more to get him. Sounds like trouble doesn’t it? Now I’m no longer seeing Matt Holliday patrol left field. Am I the only one scared here?
The only reason, ONLY REASON, that this is frustrating me as a fan is that I was under the impression after that interview that the Mets were going out and getting the players they needed to be competitive. They may still do this. However, if they do pull out of the Lackey and Holliday sweepstakes, what is there excuse?
We don’t have that kind of money?
If Jeff Wilpon came out and said that Bernie Madoff desecrated the Mets and crippled their ability to pick up any free agent, I would be fine with that. I really would. If not, the Mets need to get these players to not only make the team competitive but fill the stadium.
I do understand that this is not my team and certainly not my money but as a guy who received a 65 in Economics in High School let me ask this question: If the Mets sign Lackey and Holliday, won’t they make the money back through, ticket sales, SNY and Merchandise? (not counting playoffs if any?) Don’t tell me that kinda of stuff doesn’t make a difference? Like I said, I barely passed.
The bottom like is, I just can’t stand being lied to.
As a fan, who will receive a Season Ticket Renewal Letter in the a couple of weeks, I would like to see just what the Mets have in mind. Randy Wolf would be a nice addition, as a number 3 starter-right behind Lackey and Santana.
That’s what the Mets should be thinking. What they are thinking is really scaring me.
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I think we all feel the same way Someone said it best yesterday its like we are the poor kids at X-mas looking in the window of the toy store as the Yankee fans are inside with there servents handing them toys .I am telling you it won’t come to surprise if we see Wolf and someone like Alou and thats it
You ARE right on. Yeah,I know,the budget,the budget BUT this ain’t a paper factory the Wilpons are running here. Is it?
Dear Mr.Wilpon, You have cornerstone
players in their prime,Wright,Reyes,
Beltran all approaching the final yr
or two of their contracts.All-stars,
dependable personalities all.
You also have a legit Ace/#1 and
legit big-time closer.This is something only a handful or couple
handful of teams can say.
You have a cash cow of a new stadium,
most of which you didn’t have to bank roll and you have millions of loyal fans who will buy almost any
crap you put out there for sale.
You have your own , brand new television station and globs of cash
rolling in from your cut of both
the new MLB.COM and MLB Network.
It turns out,after further review of the books you DIDN’T lose half a Billion to your friend Bernie BUT
actually made money.
And sure as a die-hard and historian since ‘73, I’m well aware of the gambles and even,sure-things which
went bad and turned out not to be.
But, C’MON!…Don’t you want to win
a championship, Mr.Wilpon?
And aren’t you aware how much MORE
money would be generated by doing so?
Plus,aren’t you aware of the amount
of good will it would generate with
your large and loyal fan base?
In that,making a championship run for
a couple years would,….somewhat
excuse seasons like 2009.
What excuse, given what we see goes
on up in the Bronx do you really
have for NOT going all out,hell bent
after the best two or three players
out there? Adding them to the core
players noted above? And save, some
disaster and just plain bad luck
like we ran into in ‘09 we make
REAL runs at winning championships.
Or is the well noted,pessimistic side
of me and many other Met fans correct
when, we take you at YOUR WORD and
understand that the yearly goal in
your mind isn’t win a championship
at (almost) any cost but rather to
“Play meaningful games in September”?
No buddy, he is not right on at all. He is whining on Nov 7th as if it is Feb 7th.
I definitely feel that we need to make a bunch of changes, but as TRS and others have pointed out, Omar bags some seriously big game just about every offseason, and last year got KRod and JJ, which looked outstanding to many. Yeah, we should have definitely signed Abreu or Dunn, but injuries were 100% of the reason we sunk in 2009.
Yeah, we need better fundies from day one in FLA, and I hate Jerry, but Fong, they had a huge payroll by non-Yankee, real world standards, and they surely will again in 2010.
I will say that Omar did us a great disservice after 2006 by not getting a real LF and trying to play the future and now instead of doing what the Phillies did after winning. However, there is some criticism that Omar or the Wilpons did that again last year. I have no idea why they would have went with Murphy in LF and not brought in a true #4/5 pitcher as well. However, there is one thing I am sure of. Omar will bring in one big name, now the question is if he has learned to finish the deal.
You too are right on here.
But atleast I
got my original
screen name thanks to it!
How do you know what they are thinking? Geez man, it is November 7th!
Damn, I have made a few silly negative remarks lately and I thought I was a bit pessimistic, but let’s get real here!
OF COURSE the WFAN interview was utterly meaningless and borderline embarrassing public relations, and OF COURSE the ridiculous Yanks are going to outspend everyone by 70 million, as only they can afford to and they clearly are no longer good enough at development or trading to come close to winning any other way. The Yanks could not come close to competing without outspending the universe by 50% on players other teams drafted and developed; let’s not compare ourselves to them.
Yeah, like Metfreak says, Wolf and Mosies Alou are going to be the only additions for 2010. And maybe Argenis Reyes and hmmm, maybe Pedro Astacio and Richard Hidalgo?
Thanks though—reading the ridiculous drumbeat of the Nattering Nabobs of Negativity during the first week of November when spring training is just about to start, has really helped me recover my sense of objective reality.
Now, let’s go get Lackey and Crawford and a bullpen arm dammit!
Well that is Omar’s history isn’t it? As I showed yesterday he never gets a big name and always gets the 3rd tier guys, right?
Yeah, I feel like an idiot for my early pessimism after reading some of this….Omar got Pedro, Beltran, Delgado, Johan, KRod…..
I am again back to reality and off the train o’whinin’.
Like I said, to me the biggest judge of Omar this offseason will depend on if he finishes the job. Get the big name and then get the role players. Get Lackey/Holliday/Halladay AND Wolf and a guy like Nady.
Totally agree.
Hmmm, so lets blame the Yankees for the downfall of baseball and complain because they spend too much money. Then in turn lets blame the Wilpons that they don’t spend like the Yankees.
Well, I am consistent on this point—The Yanks definitely ruin baseball by spending 50% more than the 2nd highest spender, but the Wilpons most definitely do spend plenty, and have for years.
And if they really did not lose money to Madoff, we should expect at least one big new name, as Omar provides us with one or two almost every offseason.
Just wish one of those big names was “Bobby” or “Buck” or “Tony.”
still lets just hope the mets make the right personel decisions spend the money wisely and not get scared off by some price tags ! we have the revenue resources to field a competitive team i wonder why ownership is always to frugal ( in the sense we get one marquee star - one decent player and the rest are retreads)- see last season
How is the team that spends the most money in the NL and 2nd most in baseball frugal?
in the respect that we go after one big name player per year for the most part trs and then we go after stop gaps the rest of the way ( look im still a bit p’od over the parade yesterday and im letting my anger get to me lol
I agree Omar needs to finish the job. Where I don’t agree with a lot of people is that means signing a team full of big names. That is not how the Phillies did it or any other team besides the Yankees. Considering that all kinds of other teams have won it since the Yankees last won it (before 2009)that is not even the most effective model in my opinion.
i do agree but gonzo makes some great points also. btw the phils did try to make their team alot better after the season started - see cliff lee we kept hearing the excuse if we tread water and stayed competitve at the trade deadline - they would get reinforcements - which was downgraded to we will wait until the calvary comes which was downgraded even more to - well our season is over
it does boggle the mind
Not in my opinion. I think when it got that time Omar knew those guys were not coming back.
I agree with both you TRS and
the greatly respected BrockKingman…Mostly.
I for one,donot expect them to raise the payroll to 200Mil
BUT, if needed to bring in
2 or 3 prime-time players and
2 or 3 bull-dog type back-ups/
relievers, why isn’t 150 Million realistic?
And I’m sorry if my pessimstic
attitude toward our FO offends
anyone I respect here BUT
lately what they say and what they do aren’t one and the same.
I do love (maybe because I’ve also advocated for) Brock’s
idea of Crawford and Lackey.
But also,if we can get that done, lets finish the re-tooling toward a championship
and improve 1B. Even if its someone short term like Lee of
the Cubs.
Fongy we were at that LAST year. What you are suggesting would bring us up MUCH more than that.
2009: $149,373,987
If so,my bad.
Thought we were
right around
140 last season.
It does kinda
make my point
stillthough.
If 160 or 170
greatly improves
us,lets say a Crawford instead
of a Byrd.
Why exactly can’t this be
done?
What really is the difference then Fongy in that and 200 million? We would then be out spending the 3rd place team by 30-40 million which is not that much different than what the Yankees out spent us by last year.
So lets see based on that, 2 or 3 prime players. Prime players cost 16-20 million so that’s 32-48 million. Bulldog type backups/relievers cost 5-8 million so that’s 10-24 million.
Mets have 28-32 million to match last year’s payroll of 150 million. So you would be spending 42-72 million. So that would be 160-190 million. But your low ball would still not fix every hole like you want it to so lets say it’s in the middle. 175 million. Yup we are not the Yankees they spend 200M!
Don’t attack me dude. I’m asking why?
Why?,if you want to win a ring can you not,if needed
spend 160,170
mil for a yr or 2?
Then you are for the Yankee plan. Out spend everyone by 30-40 million and hope it works.
Plans change my friend. Its obvious we dont produce a whole lot out of our system(and eas THAT what Omar was all about) and we have $ key players who in the next yr or two HUGE decisions are gonna have to be made about.
So it would kill the FO to,if needed go up to 160 million.
Or better to “stay on budget” and let the window close?
So out spend everyone by 20-30 million.
And I am not attacking you any more than you do others every day.
As I said yesterday, you want it both ways. You want to attack the Yankees for spending too much and then you attack the Mets (the 2nd biggest spenders) for not spending enough. You want it both ways. Insult the Yankees and Omar at the same time and you are a happy man. Only problem is it’s being very hypocritical.
My friend,one of the last things that anyone would ever describe me as is a hypocrite.
And who exactly do I attack? And anytime that I have ever gotten into it with anyone here and gone to far,I know it and let them know I’m sorry immediately.
Again, I don’t think I am attacking you Fongy.
You want the best of both worlds. You want to insult the Yankees for spending too much, insult the Wilpons for not spending 30-40 million more than anyone in the league, and insult Omar for not spending it on the right people.
I dont hate the yanks b/c they spend so much more than everyone else.
I hate them for many more things than that. But again,put the yanks aside and explain how isn’t it in the best interest of the NYMets to, again,if needed go to 160/170 mil this season while we still have Wright,Reyes,Beltran,Santanaand KRod in their primes? And have all t the above except Santana still under contract control?
So are you saying that you did NOT insult the Yankees 2 days ago for outspending everyone else?
You do not read or listen. I hate them b/c they’re the yankees,spending included. You also have never address my repeated question about,striking now while we still have great/core players and/they’re still in their prime.
I understand your idea about striking now. And you want to do that by trading our best prospects and out spending everyone by 10’s of millions. Right?
And I’m not talkin’ about
5 to 8 million dollar back-ups.
No one has those.I’m talking
Cora type,heart
and guts,smart baseball types.
And when I say impact guys, I’m
not talking or assuming.like you are that each of those guys would cost 16-20mil per a piece.
Were you not one of the ones that said he got paid too much?
And what guy that is as you call an impact guy would not cost 16-20? Lackey? Holliday? Halladay? Who else in your mind is an impact player on the FA market or even trade market? Crawford and Agonz are most likely not happening.
No I wasn’t.
I actually advocated for Cora,who like his brother will be a mgr. one day
I think your wrong on Gonzalez.
And you could easily be wrong on Crawford.
As of today,who knows what else will be available in a trade? Point is Omar shouldn’t have to operate like Donnie Walsh.
And considering we spend 150 million I don’t think he is.
I think either of those guys could get traded, most likely Agonz. I don’t think Crawford will get traded before the deadline. However, I don’t think the Wilpons or Omar want to part with the prospects to get it done.
Changing topics. Ross Gload was not retained by the Marlins. Not a flash name for sure but another guy who could be a strong bench guy. Played 1B, RF and LF last year.
.318/.418/.455 in 79 plate appearances as a pinch hitter
Well thats great then.
So instead of moving maybe a FMart to get a Crawford,we won’t
and again remember,there will come a time in about 2 yrs where either Wright,Reyes and Beltran won’t be here
or will have to be bumped up in salary and Santana will be a couple,three yrs older as will KRod AND lets hope that this great crop of farmhands become something very, very few Met farmhands have ever become,
All-Star type players. If not, we’re into yet another cycle of rebuildin,
retooling.
You did not listen. You honestly think Fmart could get Crawford? Besides if you were the Rays why not hang on to him trying to extend him until July and then trade him? Even if you waited and offered him arbitration you would get at least 2 top picks. It would take a lot more than just Fmart and Niese to get Crawford.
So again your plan is to trade our top prospects and spend lots of money. That sounds familiar. I can’t think of what team has that kind of strategy?
Also looking at declined options Olivo would be a very good pickup for catcher. .781 OPS with 23 HR as a catcher. 103 OPS+
I still think the best trade we have is looking at Halladay who like Santana can use his no trade clause to navigate his way to NY.
Why would he?
If given the options of LA,Stl,Bos and The Bronx
why the hell would he choose Flushing?
Because he loves NY. The same reason the Rays would take Fmart for Crawford, they just like him that much.
But seriously.
I don’t think St. Louis will EVER trade the prospects or pay the cash. I don’t see Halladay wanting to pitch in the AL East in a contract year OR the Jays wanting to trade him there. So in my opinion it’s Mets and Dodgers for Halladay.
And your entitled to your opinion.
Ya see,I don’t try to deny that like you
often do here.
Also, I never meant JUST FMart
for Crawford and I could be wrong but don’t think Crawford
would have any say in the matter.
Does he have a no trade clause?
And St.Louis won’t anty up for
Halladay?
Since when is that type of move one they DON’T make?
UH, seriously? When is the last time they did anything like that? This is not Matt Holliday here. They are going to have to pay Halladay 5/100 you would have to think.
Fongy when do I ever try and deny you your opinion? All I do is what you do, challenge it. So lets not play the pity card.
Again, no one’s ever used that to describe me either.
Chris Carpenter,Mark McGwire,Jim Edmonds..Off the top of my head.
Other names
Brett Myers as he is willing to start or relieve for his next team. Yes he’s an ass but maybe he would hate the Phillies.
Marcus Thames who would be a great power RH guy that can play OF and 1B.
Now those two I can agree with.
But I’d have to make sur
Myers wants to relieve
and with Thames he’d be fine
if we brought in a Brad Hawpe type who isn’t great against lefties. He’d be(I think) agreat fit playing some LFand
1B for Broadway Danny.
I liked the idea of Hawpe until I started looking at his stats.
But as for Myers I think it’s good that he wants to do both. If he is healthy he would be a good guy to compete for the #5 slot with Maine. They could have a loser to the pen match.
Fongy it’s been fun but I have to go debate with my wife and 3yr old for a while. LOL. Have a good day.
You too Bro!
Later!
I don’t think Gonzo’s grade in economics is a factor, although it did make for some nice comic relief.
The more relevant grade might be in calendar reading. It’s November 7. The GM meetings don’t even start until next week. Historically most roster moves take place during and after those. Last season many viable players were still available on the eve of spring training.
To get worked up about what the Mets “are thinking” (how do we possibly know this?) right now seems premature.
Agreed. Can’t even talk to FA of other teams yet.