Ticket to Rumorville 4.0
Posted by metro on 7:56am, Wednesday December 2nd 2009
- Braves sign Billy Wagner for 1 year 7 million (2nd year option at 6.5 if he finishes 50 games) (The Mets now look ridiculous trading Wagner for scraps as the Sox get the 20th pick in the draft AND a sandwich pick for Wagner)
- Bengie Molina NOT offered arbitration by the Giants (look for him to be a Met in 2010), Mets also looking at Gerald Laird (via trade), Pudge Rodriguez and sadly are not interested in Ryan Doumit. Dioner Navarro is another possibility
- Mets among 8 teams interested in Saito
- The following players will cost picks if signed
Chone Figgins
John Lackey
Jose Valverde
Marco Scutaro
Mike Gonzalez
Rafael Soriano
Matt Holliday
Billy Wagner
Jason Bay
Rafael Betancourt
- Phillies sign Brian Schneider 2 years 2.75 million
-Kelly Shoppach traded to TB for a PTBNL (very nice move by TB…. would have been a nice move by the Mets)
- Mets decline to offer Delgado and Tatis arbitration
- Buster Olney thinks Cameron is a fit for the Mets
Update: MLB Trade Rumors has updated their FA list to include all of the arbitration decisions.
Take a look: 2010 MLB Free Agents
Several teams interested in Angel Pagan including the Brewers and Royals… I’d be looking at guys like Gordon or Hochevar.
Sphere: Related Content
I still disagree on Wagner as I reported in the previous post.
Shoppach I am indifferent on.
I have no idea why they did not offer Tatis arbitration unless it is already determined that he is coming back.
I would hold off on Cameron until I see what happens with Doc and Lackey. If they get gone then we will need more than Cameron on offense.
Out of that list I would take Lackey, Gonzalez, Holliday and Bay (No not all of them at the same time, who do you think I am? Alex?) The rest to me are not worth the pick.
But if the Mets got Lackey/Holliday/Bay then another arbitration guy is only worth their 3rd round pick. Still not worth it?
On that list? Who? Figgins maybe but his price would have to really fall. I don’t think Scurato, Valverde or Soriano are worth it to us.
What about Pineiro or Marquis (both type B, still a third rounder I think)?
Wolf not getting offered arbitration is very interesting though.
Mets give up nothing for signing a Type B.
My bad!
Trs,
Bart Hubbuch “tweeted” that the Mets think Tatis is “done” not sure if that means he is retiring (as he hinted at one point last year) or they think his skills are “done” the first one makes sense, the second does not as he was still quite solid for us and with Pagan, a backup catcher, Cora, Murphy (or a Murphy platoon partner) that likely leaves 1 spot for a player who has righty pop and can fill in at 3b (something none of the other players we have can do) so Tatis made sense especially since he can play 1b/3b/RF/LF and even SS/2b in a pinch.
Interesting move by the Braves. They give up a pick to sign Wagner. But they will gain a pick when they lose Gonzalez. The real interesting part was that I would think Gonzalez is cheaper than Wagner.
I don’t think the Mets are idiots until we see what Chris Carter is all about. 1st rd picks are no guarantees, especially for the Mets.
Wanny I disagree. I think Gonzalez gets more than Wagner and I think he gets at least 2 years guaranteed. He is only 31 years old and one of the better lefties in the game. As for Carter, he is a horrific fielder who profiles as an MLB bench bat, he is already 27 years old, best case is a Murphy-type and the other kid they got Eddie Lora has maybe the worst stats I have ever seen and was not in the Sox top 50 prospects.. (168/238/313-551 over 2 seasons in the GCL) 1st round picks don’t have to be “guarantees” but early picks have brought the Mets Ike Davis, Reese Havens and Brad Holt, all from 1 draft and Mike Pelfrey (not saying Pelfrey is awesome) having the #7 pick AND the #20 pick AND the sandwich pick following the 1st round would have been a real boost to the farm. I’ll take #20 and a sandwich pick over Chris Carter and so would 99% of Mets fans.
But if the Mets didn’t trade Wagner and he either got injured again or didn’t perform well, then either accepted arbitration or the Mets didn’t offer it…75% of Mets fans would be calling bloody murder for the FO not trading him. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Agreed 100%.
And Mike Gonzalez at this juncture of his career is not in the same league as a healthy Billy Wagner.
Really? Wagner career 2.39 era 1.009 whip and 38 years old coming off arm surgery, Gonzalez 2.57 era 1.21 whip “not in the same league”? Sorry stats say otherwise especially when you include one being 31 and pitching all of 2009 and the other being 38 and missing most of 2009 (aka not knowing how his arm will hold up)
Was Gonzalez the Braves closer last year? 2008? 2007?
Will Wagner be their closer this year?
Man, I have to avoid debating you.
Gonzalez will be 32 next year and ha 54 career saves.
Billy Wagner is 7 years older, but is a multi-time all-star, and has been a top closer for many years, who came back throwing very hard at the end of last year.
And has 385 career saves. And had about 225 saves at Gonzalez’s age.
Wagner’s WHIP EVERY year for the last 9 years has been better than Gonzalez’s EVERY year for the last 5.
And Wagner only threw 16 inning last year, but gave up 8 hits and struck out 26.
How so? If Wagner got hurt then OBVIOUSLY the Mets would have passed on arbitration and then they would have been out 3 million bucks. He can’t get hurt and then accept arbitration because arbitration wouldn’t have been offered. 75% of Mets fans would have called “bloody murder” that the Mets spend 3 million more then they would have had to in 2009? Which fan cares that the Mets wasted 3 million in 2009? They wasted more than that on far worse gambles.
And the buyout so 4 million bucks AND the two prospects we got back.
A .158 hitter in the GCL is not a prospect any more than you or I am.
You are playing hindsight. What happens if the Braves say, you know it’s not worth letting the Mets have our pick we will get someone else? What happens if Wagner said you know what if I take the 12+M and then force the Mets to make a move? What if he came back and got injured again?
It was just too risky for a guy who could have gotten 12+M.
Agreed probably Omar’s best move last season. The guy is out all year after getting his arm rebuilt and comes back at the end of the season when the team is washed up. Why was it worth paying him all that money for the rest of the season? Throw arbitration into the mix and he is the last guy I want the team to drop over 10mil to right now.
While I wish we could have got better prospects for Wagner, I’m not going to fret about this one. There was no use for Billy and his attitude (this is an assumption I’m making, but it seemed like billy was never a huge fan of the Mets Latin Culture)..and yeah thats Omars best move..lets just forget the fact that he signed K-Rod for only 3 years and traded Heilman for Putz (didn’t work out, but it was a good trade in my book).
The Braves were the only team interested? Says who? They jumped in and signed him quickly for a reason.
True, so you are saying you were 100% sure at the time of the trade that Wagner would not accept arbitration? 100% sure.
Haha! If Omar signed Wagner to a deal like this, the whining brigade would call for his head.
Oh, we outbid ourselves!! Why not see what the market is?!?!
This is too much.
I wouldn’t be one of the whiners because my head would simply just explode.
and the Braves can have fun with a 38 year old undersized power pitcher coming of reconstructions surgery. Wish nothing but the best for Wagner and liked him on the Mets but I don’t see 7mil in value at this point in his career.
Carter has been a very good minor league hitter who has never gotten a chance in the majors. Reese Havens has never hit like Carter in the minors and Ike Davis has but one season. Why are they are more valuable at this point?
So what exactly were they supposed to do with Wagner?
Keep him and hope he would back up KRod?
Trade him for Manny and ODog?
What should they have done??
If they signed him to a 2-year deal for this money, the Omar-bashing whiners would be screaming from the rooftops. OK, so now they can complain about this.
What they wanted was for us to offer him arbitration and then pray to the gods of rednecks that Wagner did not accept it.
LOL!
That sounds about right!
Wagner was likely to accept arbitration when he OPENLY talked about how he didn’t want to be a setup man this year and wanted 400 saves? Hmmm Doesn’t sound like a “prayer” to me. Sounds like a good gamble and one that paid off nicely for the Sox.
With our scouts, we’re probably better off not spending the dough on a first rounder.
LIKELY? You willing to risk 16 million and 2 prospects on likely?
2 prospects? Eddie Lora is a career .158 hitter. Carter is a potential bench bat and 16 million is a ridiculous number when EVERYONE said it would be 8 or 9 million.
16 million? So Wagner took 7 million guaranteed over 16? cmon
What a “gamble”
“The Red Sox agreed to decline Wagner’s $8MM option for 2010, but the pitcher expects the team to offer arbitration. He told WEEI’s Rob Bradford he’ll probably turn it down, which would mean a new team will have to surrender a draft pick to sign him.”
He told WEEI’s Rob Bradford he’ll PROBABLY turn it down.
Based on my definition isn’t PROBABLY similar to a GAMBLE?
16 includes what we would have had to pay him last year and the buy out and the 12.5 he could have ask for.
He was getting a raise on last years stats? cmon man don’t be ridiculous. If he thought he was getting 12.5 and there was “no market” for him then why did he take 7?
Then: August 25th
Now: December 2nd
Keep him through 2009, see how well he pitched and offer him arbitration if he pitched well and decline to offer it if he didn’t.
And then get nothing and pay him at LEAST a useless 4-5 million and possibly 16 million if he accepted arbitration. (1 million for the buyout the rest for remaining services)
Huh? We basically “got nothing” as it is. He would have cost the Mets 3.2 million to keep him for the remainder of 2009 INCLUDING his buyout. He has 385 saves, it makes sense to you that he would have pitched well enough that the Mets would offer arbitration but not well enough that SOMEBODY (Astros, Braves, Marlins, Nationals, Pirates, Braves, Rockies, etc etc) would have given him a closers job? and thus the Mets would have been stuck with him? 16 million? Jon Heyman was on the radio yesterday and said the Sox and Theo said they were more then happy paying Wagner the “7 or 8 million he was expected to get in arbitration should he except.
He made 10.5 million last year, he could ask for 12.5 million in arbitration and based on the arbitrator could have gotten it. Best case maybe a 20% reduction which would be 8.5.
Again you are taking a BIG cash risk by allowing him the chance to accept arbitration when at the time you don’t even know if he can pitch or not.
Oh wait so now 16 million has become possible 8.5 within a few seconds… that was quick. Why is it a gamble the Sox are fine taking and a gamble the Braves were fine taking with 2 such players (imagine both accept) but the Mets couldn’t? We just paid JJ Putz 6 million to do NOTHING, we paid Schowenweis 2.5 to leave, we paid Cora and Redding 4.5 but the CHANCE that Wagner was a) good enough that we would offer it to him and then b) he would bypass a chance for 400 saves when he OPENLY said he would likely reject arbitration and didn’t want to close wasn’t worth the gamble… ok I see.
POSSIBLE….. POSSIBLE…. POSSIBLE…..
CHANCE….. CHANCE….. CHANCE….
LIKELY….. LIKELY….. LIKELY…..
GAMBLE…… GAMBLE…… GAMBLE…..
Are we still not seeing a trend here?
And the Sox are able to take this “gamble” while the Mets arent because….
Oh yeah and larry Lucciano sure made it sound like less than a “big gamble”
Red Sox President Larry Lucchino confirmed that the Sox are offering arbitration to free agents Jason Bay and Billy Wagner, setting Boston up to receive draft pick compensation if either player signs with another team.
Lucchino said that the actual offers may have gone out already, but regardless will be happening by the end of the night.
“I think it’ll happen by the end of the day today,” Lucchino said, noting that offering arbitration is consistent with the team’s strategy of building through the draft.
“We love our draft picks,” he said.
You keep getting lost here. When the Mets made the decision to trade him they had no idea what he would do and or how much he would cost. They decided it was too much to gamble when they need many other spots that will take lots of money and they should cut bait and get a 1B prospect and a bench guy that could help us next year. It could have worked out differently for them if they had GAMBLED but they decided at that time it was too much of a risk to take.
We are never going to see eye to eye on this one so have fun bashing Omar for this move. Omar has so many things you could bash him for and to me this one is at the bottom of the list at best.
Very impressive hindsight. Really.
Hindsight? I railed against this move when it happened that’s not called hindsight pal.
Hindsight because it’s not your 10’s of millions. It’s easy to say it then when you say I BELIEVE there is no chance he would accept arbitration. However, BELIEVE cost a lot of money.
10’s of millions? It’s about 8 million bucks in 2010 he would have received in arbitration and he SAID he wanted to close, he has 385 saves… why was this gamble ok for the Sox? They are different how?
WOULD now instead of COULD? How do you know he would have recieved 8 million when he could ask for 12.5+?
He’s getting a raise? I think Theo telling Jon Heyman 7-8 has more of a handle on what Wagner would get than you or I.
Do they? Why? Have you seen how often they are wrong? They are guessing just like us. Does the arbitrator read Jon Heyman?
Again, have fun with this one. I am done. There are more productive things to argue about today like things that matter.
After seeing this ridiculous argument about a player that had no role left with this team, I vote that silly opinions be moved to a silly opinion section if someone is posting a story here. What should of been discussion on FA’s turned into a wall of crap.
Yeah, sorry about that.
Hey I’m wrapped up into it as well. My only concern is with the amount of contributes that the site has these type of opinions are a little dangerous.
You know how some tv networks have that disclaimer that “the viewpoints of our sponsors are not necessarily the viewpoints of this network”.
I have no problem with Metro expressing this opinion but having something like that right at the top gives it the illusions that it is a commonly understood and valid argument and something that the TRD is behind.
I have plenty if silly opinions myself
Aren’t ALL of the articles on here mostly opinion pieces? This isn’t exactly a “news site” it’s an opinion site that discusses the news.
It’s both. It’s a place to get Mets centric news. I actually first learned about the Wagner trade here this morning. And like all blogs is displays opinions about the news.
But having “The Mets now look ridiculous…” right at the top with nothing stating along the lines of “I feel that The Mets look ridiculous…” is a little sketchy. Hey this isn’t some large scale sponsored blog where there are any financial stakeholders, but I personal wouldn’t mind opinions separated out better.
Mattsblog actually does a terrific job of this. Since his opinions are in italics I know not to read that part.
I agree 100%.
I ALWAYS put the word “opinion” in my posts when they are opinions.
I also back them up with FACTS and not nonsense.
Yeah, I think it’s o.k. as long as the author says “In my opinion…”
If it is a strong opinion that I think is debatable I usually make the post and then throw my opinion in the comment section.
I think it’s a risky move by the Braves because Gonzalez and or Soriano very well could accept arbitration. Having that Type A label on your head can prove fatal.
That being said in a market with few closers I am expecting Soriano and Gonzalez to find jobs.
Soriano has nasty stuff. I’m willing to bet a team is gonna take a shot.
Does anyone know what Wagner was offered in arbitration? I honestly have no clue.
They don’t offer cash at that time. Only to the idea of arbitration. Then the two sides have a while to work something out by submitting salary ideas to each other before it goes to the arbitrator.
Guys we really can’t judge the Wagner trade until we find out the end result. We need to know who Boston drafts with their new draft picks, how those players develop. Then, when Boston eventually trades at least one of them, how the player(s) they acquire in that trade will develop. This could take a few years…stay tuned.
Agreed, and we still need to find out what Carter has. What people don’t see is that he was blocked in Boston and put up very impressive numbers in the minors. It is POSSIBLE that he could be a late bloomer.
I just don’t understand why Eddie Loria was the BEST we could do. I’m not sure I’ve seen worse stats from a player other than the Legendary Kenji Garcia (anybody remember him?)
Kids 20 years old. His stats were .222 .287 .414 .701 last year which are very bad. However, he has shown decent power and was at one time considered a decent prospect. Most of his stats are in the Dominican summer league and he has done very well there (.300 .455 .492 .947) but has struggled in the true Minor Leagues. Who knows?
Moving on.
21 years old opening day 2010, 46 k’s in 120 ab’s this year is equally awful. This is a guy they added to stick in BK because he is from… NYC. Funny you mention ONE year of his DSL (which is a whopping 120 ab’s) but not the other where he hit 222/367/319 in 240 ab’s
His stats for his career including the DSL-
467 ab’s 106 hits 176 k’s.
Ike Davis wasn’t all that impressive in his age 21 season at Brooklyn either: 256 .326 .326
Brandon Lyon looking for a mult-year deal, Mets supposedly in on Dotel
Dotel is an extreme flyball pitcher so CitiField would likely help him. He and K-Rod would probably drive us nuts but he would still be an upgrade over what we had in 2009 and he still misses bats.
Several teams are eyeing Mets outfielder Angel Pagan, according to Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOXSports.com.
The Royals and Brewers are among the clubs who may have expressed interest. Pagan, 28, hit .306/.350/.487 this season with six homers, 32 RBI and 14 stolen bases over 343 at-bats. The Mets are expected to bid on a few top free agent outfielders this winter and could probably afford to lose Pagan. That said, he’s relatively cheap and serves as a reliable utility outfielder.
Source: FOXSports.com
Related: Royals, Brewers
I’d love to see if we could pry away Gordon and Hochevar from the Royals for Pagan and 1-2 secondary prospects. I know they are down on Hochevar.
Olney-“One high-ranking rival executive believes that Matt Holliday will sign with the Mets. To be clear, this was a prediction, and not hard information.”
Could you possibly find something even more meaningless to write??
Metro, no one is going to read these things now. If you can make a new post with all of this in it.