This Day In Mets Infamy With Rusty - RUSTYJR RETURNS !!! 12-08-09
Posted by rustyjr on 6:13am, Tuesday December 8th 2009
Hello my fellow Mets fans. During this past week of not having my computer due to the bloodhound virus, I found myself going through the classic symptoms of withdrawal,cursing , fretting and just being plain miserable ( just ask Mrs. RustyJr) . But I am back and as mediocre as ever ! Some thoughts while I was away , I don’t mind the Chris Coste & Henry Blanco signings ( surprised so ? so am I ) I feel Blanco will make for a very good late innings defensive replacement, while Chris ” I’ll always be a Phillie” Coste should make an ample tutor for Josh Thole in Buffalo this coming season . I am still scratching my head over the re-signing of Alex Cora . I mean Omar Vizquel signed a one year contract for 1.5 million dollars as a starting infielder and we just committed two million dollars plus a option for a second year for a man who might have clubhouse grit and little else? In my opinion that was not a good signing. And now that the Winter Meetings are here I do admit I am excited but the question remains do I trust Omar? The answer is a lukewarm no. Until Omar brings home a solid pitcher and a offensive power threat for either left field or first base , I can’t ( and won’t) start drinking the Omar Kool Aid again !!
” Are you drinking the Omar Kool Aid?”
And Now it’s time for some Hot Stove INFAMY !!!!!
Happy Birthday wishes go out to a player I put the ” what if ” moniker on. Third baseman from the early and late ’70’s -Tim ” Crazy Horse ” Foli is 59 (1950) Tim was one of the Mets best prospects of ther late ’60’s - early ’70’sand had a brief stint with the Mets in ‘71 & 72. He was later traded to the Montreal Expos along with first baseman Mike Jorgenson and outfielder Ken Singleton for future Mets icon Rusty Staub. Foli went on to have a above average career as a third baseman for many teams. He hit for power and average, and was one of the toughest players of his time. He played briefly again for the Mets during the ‘79 season before being traded to the Pirates for lite hitting shortstop Frank Taveras.
New York Mets purchased power hitting outfielder ,Richie Ashburn from the Chicago Cubs on December 8, 1961. Ashburn played one season with the Mets before returning to the Philadelphia Phillies - the team that he made his bones with.
New York Mets traded infielder - Elio Chacon and pitcher - Tracy Stallard to the St. Louis Cardinals for outfielder, Johnny Lewis and pitcher , Gordie Richardson on December 8, 1964.
On a more infamous note , today is the thirty second anniversary of our Mets trading former Rookie of the Year pitcher Jon Matlack and slugging first baseman, John Milner to the Texas Rangers for first baseman, Willie Montanez, and outfielders, Ken Henderson and Tom Grieve. This was the final insult of M. Donald Grant’s imploding of the “77 Mets Roster but wait here in a even more INFAMOUS that happened on this date a year later !!!
New York Mets traded Jerry Koosman to the Minnesota Twins for Jesse Orosco and Greg Field on December 8, 1978.As it turned out Kooz was unhappy with the organization and asked to be traded . The aforementioned Grant obliged and six years later we finally reaped the fruits of that trade when Jesse became a dominant closer.
New York Mets traded utility infielder, Bob Bailor and pitcher Carlos Diaz to the Los Angeles Dodgers for pitchers Sid “El Sid” Fernandez and Ross Jones on December 8, 1983. As it turns out this is one of Frank Cashen’s most overlooked deals. He pretty much jettisoned flotsam ( Diaz & Bailor ) for the unproven minor league pitcher - Fernandez. In my opinion was the most underrated pitcher on those mid to late ’80’s pitching staffs.
Florida Marlins signed first baseman Dave Magadan of the New York Mets as a free agent on December 8, 1992.
Florida Marlins signed Al Leiter of the New York Mets as a free agent on December 8, 2004. Although I always liked Leiter, I wasn’t upset to see him go. He had become a clubhouse lawyer , allegedly in cahoots with John Franco and Rick Petersen in getting Scott Kazmir traded to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. Also his skills has eroded tremendously and it was time to bid him farewell.
And remember - there are only 118 long days until the Mets open the 2010 season against the Florida Marlins at Citi Field !!!
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Great to have you back Rusty–I think this is the first time we have seen actual FACTS on the site in ages!!
I loved El Sid, and agree that he was excellent and that that was a great trade. And while I loved Milner and Matlack, I must admit that as a child Willie Montanez’s nonsense did entertain me.
And I was not the biggest fan of Leiter and his politics, but he did win some big games for us, along with that disaster of Game 6 against Atlanta. The very best was the one game playoff with the Reds, also in 99, when Edgardo homered in the first and Leiter pitched his best game as a Met—I was fortunate enough to have been in Las Vegas and bet $100 on the game!
HAHAHA MC purchased MetsGM.com
Does he think he’s a GM now?
your kidding
Welcome back rus
A bloodhound huh, thats a nasty one
Welcome back Rustoleum (as Art Rust
jr used to say)!! BUT you needed to
do what I do this morning and mix
a little espresso in with your maxwell house!…Tim Foli was a
SHORTSTOP for us , Montreal and
the “We are family Pirates”,…
Jeez, that must seem like a long,
long time ago for Bucco fans.
So apparently the Brewers offered Wolf 3 years, $28+MM
Crazy, I would’ve never thought he’d get three guaranteed years. Maybe the third is an option?
Agreed. This also means Piniero will be looking for
at least three years and now that Pudge has signed with
the Nats for two, Molina won’t
settle for a yr. These developments may all be good news for the Mets as long as
it keeps Omar away from these
guys.
He can’t stay away from all of them Fongy we know that. If Holliday and Lackey are going to get close to what they want and guys like Wolf are going to get 3 years the best thing we can do is keep the damage to a minimum and take our time.
I agree with taking our time
if Omar really
doesn’t get into serious
bidding on Lackey&Holliday. He CANNOT be
giving 3/4yr deals to the Pinieros of the
world or 2/3yr
deals to the Molinas of the world.
AND he’d better start looking further into guys like
Granderson and
Jackson,even
if it means giving up prospects like FMart.
What is “serious” bidding on Lackey and Holliday? My hope is that Omar offers them contracts based on what they are worth and tells them that’s it. You don’t overpay in a weak market.
Looks like everyone’s already doing just that.It amazes me,but they are.
Agreed and to me that is why the Mets should wait it out. Offer the big names a contract, tell them to keep in touch and then wait.
Lets say Lackey prices himself out and the Mets have to choose from the B group. Do you really care if it’s Garland, Davis, Marquis, Wolf or Pineiro for 1 year? I say 1 year because in my opinion one or more of those guys will be left out because the other teams are taking themselves out of the market so early by overpaying.
This Wolf contract scares the bajeepers out of me. If Wolfs getting 3 years at almost 30 million, this is not good for us.
Honestly in this market he deserves that. I would not pay him that but to me he is more worth 3/28 than Lackey is worth 5/90 or even 100+.
You’re nuts my friend!
And I mean that in a loving way
Wolf isn’t in the same class as Lackey.
One guy is a quasi-ace
and the other is a 4th
starter,when healthy.
Like I’ve said, I didn’t want to go beyond what Lowe got
last yr BUT if Wolf gets three,Piniero gets four, how can Lackey NOT get a five
yr deal?
Obviously he is not in the same class Fongy.
That is why one is looking for 3/28-30 and the other 17+ a year for 5-6 years. If you are going to call Lackey a quasi-ace then you have to give credit to the numbers that Wolf has put up the last 2 seasons when healthy. Obviously there is a chance that won’t happen and that is why his salary will be lower.
I am sticking to my guns that Wolf is more worth 3/28 than Lackey is worth 5/90+ or maybe even 6 years that we are hearing.
Alright we’ll agree to disagree.
I think The Brewers are making the same mistake
they did with Jeff Suppan after the ‘06
season.
NEVER. LOL.
Seriously though Fongy, you have to admit based on the last 2 years stats Wolf deserves to get at least 3/28. I am not even saying the Mets should do it. I am saying that’s about what he is worth. In fact if you look at Fangraphs and average his last 3 years that is exactly what he is worth.
What I don’t get is why so many bloggers and reporters are all over Omar for not pushing to get the big ticket guys yet and taking his time on them? I am sure they will come back to the Mets to try and get a better offer if they are interested in playing for the Mets. If nothing else the big names are going to come back to the 2 NY teams to try and drive up the prices of the other teams. Yes last year the Braves took Lowe out from under us with Omar using the same strategy. Now what is happening? The Braves vastly overpaid for Lowe and are trying to dump him.
Second thing I don’t get is that they are getting on him for not having a “concrete” plan at the GM meetings or even the off-season. I have said many times on here I think that is a very smart strategy this off-season because we have so many holes that need to be filled. What if Lackey gets the money he wants but a guy like Holliday gets left out and has to sign much cheaper (like Krod last year). Should the Mets say, nah we need to vastly overpay Lackey because we need SP more? I think the key for Omar will be being flexible and creative. Something in my opinion that he can get better at and so far (based on rumors) he is doing that.
But with the FA talent so thin (especially in SP department), what makes you think Lackey’s (or anyone else) price will drop?
Never said it would. I am saying that with so many holes the Mets can’t afford to go all in on one position and vastly overpay only to be stuck with that player the following season and still have a lot of holes that they still don’t have the money to fill.
100% correct!
Because reporters are for the most part vapid parasitic sheep who need to get people to read their drivel, and most bloggers are silly, impatient, and unreasonable, and have zero memory or historical background.
As the Mets are down after 2009 and Omar may be on the hot seat, the reporters circle like the mindless sharks they are.
You sir, are right on the money here.
And with the Randy Wolf signing, can we please make 1 more call to Detroit for Jackson.
Wolf from what I can tell has NOT signed yet and is still negotiating with 6 teams.
Yeah but its just his agent calling around
trying to get more yrs/$. Can’t blame him BUT no one’s giving him a better deal than that offer from the Beer Makers.
I’m with Putz(hey that
was funny)on recalling
The Tigers on both Jackson and Granderson.
Oh no doubt on Jackson. To me I am not that high on Granderson. The Yankees want him and to me that means we would have to give up some good prospects and his numbers just don’t seem to warrant that IMO.
The guy is an impact player TRS and it would seem perfect
fit in Citifield.Moreover,my
head will explode if they get him for the
type of package
they stole Swisher
for last season.
Then,they’ll take their savings and sign Lackey.
Fongy I know he was great but he has declined the last 2 years and last year was down right Frenchy level: .249 .327 .453 .780
Not to mention (ok I will) his splits: Last year vs LHP: .183 .245 .239 .484
Career:
.210 .270 .344 .614
Can you really have that as a guy in the lineup that you are trading top prospects for?
Honestly he has only had 1 break out season the other years he’s been an average to nice player.
You could say exactly the same thing about Edwin Jackson.
You are right. But my hope is that we would not have to give up as much for him.
Wolf is old, he might have just signed (when it happens) his last contract, and he knows this. All of a sudden, why pitch with a slighty injured knee? What happens if he declines? He’s unmovable. Jackson is younger, cheaper with more upside and is marketable if necessary.
Who is comparing Wolf and Jackson?
I guess me, but I like Jackson over signing Peneiro Wolf or Marquis in a heartbeat and I don’t think it will cost much in prospects.
Pineiro is the disaster scenario for me.
He is Oliver Perez 2.0.
If Omar gives him a 4-year deal, we will look back fondly on the Slappy and Ollie deals.
Agreed, but IMO no way does he get 4 years. Not unless Lackey is off the market first and someone gets really desperate. The fact the Cards did not want to offer him long term should be the first indicator.
Pinerio wants 4 years, Wolf wants 3 years, Lackey wants 6 years, still yet to hear from Marquis, Garland, Davis, etc. I am telling you be patient because somebody’s going to get the shaft. Rush to make a decision and it might be you.
Good god, Pudge for 2 year guaranteed by the Nats at 2.5-3 million a YEAR. Omar please just wait out the catching situation.
Indianapolis - Don’t put Randy Wolf in the Brewers’ starting rotation just yet.
I just learned that the New York Mets are meeting with Wolf’s agent this morning. So, if Wolf’s reps are still talking to teams, the Brewers haven’t locked him up yet.
Great! Omar will offer him 4yrs and we’ll get your man
TRS!
Fongy, you know I don’t want him for 4 years so stop calling him my man damn it. LOL.
I personally would not want to go more than 2.
C’mon Dude!
He’s your guy..
we all know it.
Seriously, though, I begged Omar to
sign him(via mattsblog)a yr
ago at this time instead
of Ollie after we fell out of contention for
Lowe. I’d even
consider two yrs,but even that would make me nervous
but 3 or maybe
more?? Thats just crazy.For aguy who will 34,in 11seasons
has spent only 7 of them healthy,has visited the DL
8 times had 4,#4type seasons,1 #5type season
AND 2 #3 type seasons.
Man!, these owners really
are crazy!
I agree Fongy. That is why I am saying I would be ok with 2/20 with an option but not 3 years.
This is the market of middle aged pitchers missing that umph. Just thought I’d give it a title. Hope it catches on.
Goog God TRS,Granderson is 28 years
old not making crazy money and in
a bad year hit 30HRs in a ballpark
bigger than ours.This following
‘07 when he hit.302,scored 122 runs,
38 doubles,23 trips,23HRs &26SBs.
And then’08 when he hit.280,scored 112 rus,26 doubles,13 trips&22HRs.
All the while playing a pretty good CF in what is again, a canyon.
This guy is a real good ballplayer
no matter what he hits against Lefties.
A) .249 .327 .453 .780 141 K’s, 61 Extra base hits, 273 TB
B) .280 .309 .423 .732 92 K’s, 51 Extra base hits, 251 TB.
One of these is your boy and one is Francoeur. Now change one of them to this while with the Mets. .311 .338 .498 .836.
Is Granderson a good player? Yes. Would I want him on the Mets? Maybe pending on where he would hit. Would I give up our best prospects for him? NO!
If we’re going after one of their high paid sky is the limit young talented outfielders, why not go the Cabrera route?
LOL, talk about switching extremes. While I think Granderson will cost a lot, it would be nothing compared to Cabrera.
If you’re going to isolate 1 season and hold it against a player (Granderson) or isolate half of 1 season to praise a player (Francoeur), how can you willfully ignore the fact that Edwin Jackson has had only 1 good season, and that 1 good season was split into a very good first half and a rotten second half?
If you argue strongly against acquiring Granderson you should take a similar tack on Jackson IMO.
Ed Jack 2009
1st half
7 W, 4 L, 2.52 ERA, 1.060 WHIP, 2.77 K/BB
2nd half
6 W, 5 L, 5.07 ERA, 1.527 WHIP, 1.83 K/BB
Jackson has had half of one good season in the majors. Based on ERA+ Jackson has had only 1 season in the majors above ML average, and that was his first season in which he made 4 starts.
Granderson has had 2 above average, and one average season out of four (OPS+ of 98, 135, 123, 100 the last 4 years).
Grave as I said on the previous post my thoughts were that Jackson would be incredibly cheaper than Granderson.
Well I apologize, given my schedule it’s tough to come in and thoroughly read all the comments that have come before, but I hope that doesn’t then mean I can’t participate, there may just have to be some re-hashing.
Maybe he will be cheaper, maybe he won’t. Jackson’s trade doesn’t offer the Tigers much of the salary relief that they are allegedly motivated by so they might as well hold onto him unless knocked over, unless they think he sucks.
LOL, I was referring to the one where you ask me the question. No biggee.
I agree on your last point. I would assume that in the real world Jackson may be attached to another contract.
Both young with
lots of upside,
not making crazy money.
As opposed to
guys like Wolf
and Molina who
will cost plenty are either aging or aged and come with huge
question marks
of injury history or declining skills.
Is FMart even gonna be Granderson? Or
even DeJesus?
An if you believe so,when
in 3,4 yrs?
Long after Omar
is gone?
And one other thing that I’ve been meaning to post
but keep forgetting. On Ike Davis, while the sample I had of him live was
small compared to how often I saw guys like FMart,Murphy,Evans,Parnell&Niese the prior couple seasons,
I’ll tell ya that he looks like a legit prospect. The guy he almost exactly reminds me of though is LaRoche. Sample sixe, swing and slick
glove at 1B.
Now while pretty good,I
don’t think he should be untouchable.
That should have read”same size
and swing”
Don’t know what happened there.
I agree that if all it took was Pagan, Parnell and Fmart to get Granderson it may open up a new discussion. But based on what the Yankees were rumored to being parting with I am not sure we want to exceed it.
What I don’t understand is why would Omar STILL be talking to Wolf’s agaent? If the Brewers offered three years,it would seem to me we’d be out of it. Is his intent to match the three yrs? And if so , why?
Does he really want him that much?
And if so, wouldn’t that mean he’d likely have to go to a fourth year?
For God’s sake, this is Randy Wolf we’re talking here NOT Sandy Koufax!
The FO does know that, don’t they???
I am sure they do. Perhaps Wolf would take 2 years for a little more money with a 3rd year option. Perhaps not. What is wrong with having the meeting?
Because if The Brewers already offered 3, this guy who couldn’t geta job is gonna take that or less from us?
I think I know the real connection with
this guy and The Mets,
He grew up a Doders fan and said during an
interview b/f one of the playoff games how
much he wanted to remain a Dodger.
Freddy must have been listening!
LOL that’s funny of course. It’s all a conspiracy theory.
But again there have been plenty of examples of a team offering more money and less years. Perhaps the Mets offer 2/20 instead of 3/28 with an easy 3rd year option. Not saying they should but just playing devil’s advocate as to why you still have the meeting. Having the meeting does not imply that you are ready to give more than the previous offer. If the previous offer is even true.
Because Omar can’t mutitask!
Right.
Uh where has that been proven? Or is that just another thing that we just assume based on media reports? Hmmm, I never knew Omar was the entire Mets front office. Especially now.