Ticket to Rumorville 5.0
Posted by metro on 10:36am, Wednesday December 9th 2009
- Mets reportedly amongst 5+ teams interested in Darren Oliver
-Heyman reports the Mets have kicked up interest in Lackey
-Heyman also reports the Mets expect to sign Molina for 2 years 12 million (or so) while the Mets maintain interest in Rod Barajas, Yorvit Torrealba (one of the worst catchers in baseball) and have inquired about Shoppach from the Rays
- Wolf expected to sign with Brewers but Mets still involved
-Mets have expressed interest in Mike Gonzalez
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Lackey and Gonzalez and Oliver would be absolutely amazing.
Someone tell Omar he’s about 3
years too late on Oliver and
Molina. Also, someone let him know, Gonzalez is O.K. BUT ain’t THAT good! So, PLEASE no
3 or 4 year deals!
Depends on how much Gonzalez is wanting. If it’s 3 million I would give him 3/9 if it’s 5 million then he gets a 1+1.
Gonzalez is pretty darn good, and as a setup man for KRod, he would be just about ideal.
2 things to keep in mind though… 1. He will be very expensive 2. He will cost the Mets a 2nd or 3rd round pick (2nd if they don’t land Lackey or Bay or Holliday)
Good point.
Personally, it is all about pitching for me; when we got Putz, I thought it was the greatest move in the world, and if he wasn’t hurt from day one, it might have been.
I just love the idea of a hard-throwing guy like Gonzalez for the less-pressure spot of the 8th, so we can look at a lot of wins if we are up after 7.
But would Gonzalez sign with the Mets if there are other offers that would make him a closer?
Mets would have to overpay him to be the 8th inning guy. I think he can get his $ from elsewhere as a closer.
Maybe you are right. To me it really depends on what happens to the market. He has not been a true closer since 2006 and has never had more than 24 saves. Last year was also his first healthy year since 2006. Those 2 things could be held against him in getting a big contract for 3 or more years.
Considering the Mets failure to sign draft picks this year, I’d be happy to forfeit second and third round picks for Lackey and Gonzalez.
Wanny, something came up that maybe you have knowledge on.
I thought I read in one of the twitter flashes that the Yankees get the 1st round pick in the rule 5 draft through a trade with the Nats. I know you can’t trade regular draft picks but can you trade rule 5 picks?
I think it’s a technicality.
You can’t trade the pick. The Nats will pick a player the Yankees want, then trade that player to the Yankees.
That is certainly not the way it reads.
“ESPN’s Jayson Stark says the Yankees are shopping their #1 pick in tomorrow’s Rule 5 draft, which they acquired for Brian Bruney. If they don’t trade the pick, Yahoo’s Steve Henson says the Yankees could use it on pitcher Arquimedes Caminero. “
Understood, but your initial assumption that you “can’t trade the pick” is correct.
You can make an arrangement with any team you want and pick who they want, then trade that player to them.
You can’t literally “trade the pick.”
For example, Johan Santana was taken in the rule 5 draft by the Marlins, then immediately traded to Minnesota in a pre-arranged deal.
Thanks, just wondered if there was a different rule for the uh rule 5 draft.
Grave is correct to the extent of my knowledge.
I actually think it would be Gonzalez OR Oliver.
I read some more on the catching situation and if Molina pushes for 2 years instead of 1+1 the Mets are prepared to move on. Right now I don’t see anyone giving it to him unless he ask for less cash. Sure we will give you 2 years for the same amount total that we will pay you for 1. LOL.
Also in the rumors where the Mets thoughts on the current pitchers.
Lackey they would go 3+ years but for the rest of the crap they only go 1 year. If that is true then Omar is learning.
I think it’ll be Gonzalez OR Oliver too.
It would be nice to have both, but I don’t think the Mets would spend $10M on BP.
TRS,
Not sure it’s only 1 year on other guys because they had the Mets making a competitive offer for Wolf who is going to get 3 years 30 or so so unless the Mets offered 1 year 20 million one would have to believe they offered him at LEAST 2 years if not 3.
Misquoated it slightly
“Of the five pitchers Sherman mentions, the Mets are only willing to offer more than three years to Lackey, and no more than two years to Marquis, Garland, and Davis.”
Gonzalez OR Oliver?
That makes ZERO sense.
Gonzalez would be the 8th inning guy and occasional closer, and Oliver would be middle relief/7th inning.
???
Just saying they are not going to spend 10 million on 2 LHRP to go with Feliciano.
Cannot even believe you wrote that.
Go look up Oliver’s career splits.
You are excommunicated from the Church of Anti-Handedness.
LOL, not saying I would or would not Kingman. Saying THEY are not going to spend 10 million on 2 LHRP.
LOL–you are probably right…but I would add them both in a second if we could still afford Lackey…
I guess Roy Halladay is out of the picture at this point.
Not yet IMO but good to lay low on it.
Well Omar better start getting creative b/c if he thinks adding
an old Catcher, a #3 SP and an oft-
injured Lefty RP to his squad of question marks is somehow gonna turn
us back into contenders, he’s living in dream land.
Geez Fong, none of the big players we all want have done anything yet!
Sorry homes, just gettin’ real nervous
with all tese rumors
surronding players that I feel are a waste of time.
I know, I know, he’s gotta check on everything but I watched alot of MLB
network lastnight for
the first time in months and the yankee move dives me crazy.
The rich get richer
w/o having to gamble their big pieces and
even the Tigers you’ve
had a nice little run
under current Mgmt
rebuild on the fly w/o
giving up their biggest assets.
B/T/W, did anyone else see that Costas
interview of Bob Feller lastnight?
Talk about good stuff
for the die-hard baseball fan in the
middle of our first snowstorm of the winter!
What the hell? You didn’t watch the Nets game last night?!?!
2-1 in our last three–playoffs here we come!
Also loved Kiki!
Too bad my Knicks
got him a couple yrs too late as
a player!
It has a;ways seemed like my
Knicks,Rangers&Mets ALWAYS
get a guy a yr or 2
late!
How do we have a clue what he thinks right now?
Rumors everywhere.
He is signing Matsui, Vlad, Holliday, Lackey, Cameron, Wolf, Pineiro, Marquis, Garland, trading for Arroyo, Harang, Phillips, Hart, Millwood, Overbay, Rivera….
That’s an expensive team.
LOL agreed. I do think Omar does not get enough credit for keeping the Mets plans out of the media. That has to be hard to do in NY. Maybe what he does is just throw out every name so no one knows what the hell we are doing.
Gonzalez is getting a LOT more than 3 for 9. Billy Wagner just got 1 year 7 million with a 2nd year option. Gonzalez will get 2-3 years 7+ easily.
Absolutely correct.
Hopefully we can get him for 2/12+.
That’s a reasonable price for Gonzalez, but I think that would leave no $$ to sign anybody else for BP help.
2/12, plus our 2nd round draft pick, since he is a Type A that was offered arb.
Maybe. We just don’t know what will happen in the market. I can’t say. I think he gets 3/15.
Gee, I found out where the people that are too dumb to post on MB and MLBTR go to post their “thoughts”
They comment on Sherman’s articles.
Man, some scary stuff.
anyway, this is a tough off season market it seems. Unlike last year (when Omar screwed the pooch big time), it doesn’t seem that their is a big pool of viable SPs just begging for work and looking at 1 year deals.
and please, stay away from Molina if at all possible, and by no means, if they insist on having him, for more than 1 year.
I really don’t want the Mets getting an old guy that is big enough to qualify to be on “the biggest loser” as the starting catcher.
And enough with this trading Maine crap. They are way too short on SP as it is, and if somehow they do end up with a spare, he could kick some butt in the Pen. And Cory hart? pas. Please, pass.
Now, if they can snag Juan Rivera, that would be fine!
And finally, while it may shock some, I think Ollie is going to be the surprise of the 2010 season (and in a good way). He is going to hit camp toned and focused, and have a big season. After which Omar should trade him ASAP!
FInal final thought: Saw a tweet from Sherman that a Met’s official admitted that any chance of trading Luis was just about dead. Dang it all to heck in a rowboat.
Maybe it’s just the mood I’m in right now, but for some reason I think your right about Ollie. He did pitch outstanding in game 7 of the nlcs after a season of nothing. He’s been good in big spots. Hopefully he gets it together.
Go ahead and slam me folks, but I still think Ollie has tremendous potential and is very young and might very well come out and have another 2007 year in 2010.
Well, to be fair to Omar, there is a reason that Ollie got his contract, and it wasn’t just because of his last name.
a 28 YO lefty with tantalizing “stuff” will also be more intriguing than a 34 YO career journeyman.
And you know Kingman, I think you and I were the only two who liked that we resigned Ollie - LOL.
And yes, 2009 was a lost year $$ on him. Dang you, Ollie.
Here’s hoping in 2010 we’ll get what we paid for. The fact that someone got through to him about showing up in shape (he’s at that AZ conditioning camp still, right?) is reason enough to hope we’ll get 12-15 wins from him this upcoming season…
If there’s anything going on this site has taught me, is that Molina is not what this team needs. Up until now I’ve wanted him, and thought people were overreacting. But after seeing the numbers (13 walks!) and seeing the debates, and seeing as the deal is going to be two years long, I am beginning to see the storm clouds.
Beyond the Boxscore had Molina graded as the 104/118 catcher defensively. That’s scary for a 36 year old catcher.
Mike Gonzalez is a very good pitcher no denying that one I just hope that isn’t the Mets “big” addition because that seems like a waste of time with the starters and offense we have.
Gonzalez is not a waste of time at all. He just may not be enough.
But there’s no way the Mets can go into this season relying on Bobby Parnell to serve an important role in the pen.
I will slightly disagree. I think he can be in an important role but that role has to be 7th inning guy who in a pinch has to be replaced by Feliciano for a LH batter.
He’s a waste of time if that is the Mets big move. He is going to cost 6-7 million per which means with Molina making 5+ that those are “major” moves. If the Mets off-season is Molina/Marquis/Gonzalez then 6+ on Gonzalez was a waste of time because the Mets won’t be all that good.
XM Radio SUPPOSEDLY reporting that Bay may sign with a team by tonight (Mets aren’t involved) but this may start the Holliday train… I say supposedly because I didn’t hear it myself.
ALmost think that would have to be the Red sox, right? Unless Seattle was pushing hard behind the scense.
If you happen to want the mets to get Holliday, Bay going to the Sox is probably a good thing.
Yeah I think it’s most likely th Redsox
upping the offer in response to the yankees move which should be an easy sign
for Epstein b/c apparently Bay wanted
to be there.
It will open the door and further set a
baseline for Holliday
which could make things even worse when
dealing with Boras.
I wouldn’t expect him to sign until after the New Year which
only makes things even more difficult
for Omar.
Here’s the thing on Gonzalez.
1. He’ll be expensive. 2. He can get his money elsewhere as a closer.
I don’t see him coming to the Mets unless he’s overpaid or there are no other teams interested.
I THINK you are right. It really depends on how the market goes. Problem for him is he has not been a closer in a while.
And I’m not sure how many teams are seeking a high priced closer right now.
Also, Soriano and Valvered, with much more recent experience in the role are available too.
Say no to Molina. Please Omar, tell me you’ve learned something.
2nd!
He’s better than Santos, right?
As long as the money doesn’t prohibit other moves, I’ll accept it even if I don’t like it. Omir Santos is not Penske material.
Maybe?
In 2010?
Maybe?…is right!
I have to agree. Is he bad defensively? Yes. Are there good defensive starting catchers available? No.
So might as well get someone that can hit the ball in the 7 or 8 hole. As long as it’s doesn’t stop from making other moves or more years than other teams are offering.
Trouble is that at his age
you don’t know how much his
drop of will be
and if for millions more tied up for 2/3
yrs will it be
any better than
Santos,Thole&
whoever else
would produce.
Gerald Laird is reportedly available via trade and he was graded as the #1 defensive catcher in baseball in 2009
THANK YOU!
Theres
a better
choice!
BUT like I always
say….
Omar sets his
sights
on someone
and its
Laser-like!
Hope their ording the 4XL
size jersey
for Bengie now as well as
that size 52
blue belt to match our new,old uni’s.
How did that work when he set his sights on Lowe? How about when he wanted either Molina or Hernandez and they would not take his offer and he traded for LoDuca?
Case and Bengie up in a tree,
k-i-s-s-i-n-g
first comes power,
then comes passed ball,
then comes Mets missing out on Mauer!
hey, we’re not allowed to discuss Mauer here.
Mauer…
Mauer…
I love Mauer…
Yankees are going to get Mauer…
I would live in Twin City for one winter if the Mets get Mauer.
I agree. As long as it doesn’t prevent the Mets from signing other FAs and the price/year are reasonable, I would not mind him batting #7 spot.
More and more I think about Molina, Mets should really push for 1+1 rather than 2 years guaranteed.
Remember he has to catch too. I guess he would be valuable in interleague.
I don’t think the advantage in hitting makes up for the disadvantage in catching, especially not at the price.
I thought you were for Molina at 1+1 $6M per
My position is that I could accept it at that but I really don’t want him. Especially the more and more defensive stats that come out. How much do we lose with him being that bad? Teams run at will. Could you imagine how embarrassing it would be when the Phillies steal 7 bases in one game on us?
Just like every FA candidate left (well that we are considering) it depends on cost, years and what else happens.
I am fully back into “no molina, no way” mode. I almost got toaked out of it (maybe resigned to the inevitable?), but given how bad he is now getting on base, and the turly dismal reports of what his D has become, just stay away. Especially since he would be getting way more money it seems than the other choices.
Funny, I usually get toked into things not vice versa…
That comment is one toke over the line
Your comment is awaitng
moderation!
Or…something.
For all the Church lovers here…
Wasn’t he just DFA by the braves?
Why no drum beat to pick him back up?
HAHA! On another thread I agreed with Case that he would be a cool platoon partner for Pagan if we spend big elsewhere!!
Holy Mary!, what a disaster!
I just read Omar HAS
made an offical offer
of 2/12 for Molina.
Thats bad news. How could he not accept it? He wont get a better offer from anyone else.
Combined with the fact that Omar can’t
move Castillo, that
Six thru eight in the
order is gonna be beatiful!
Frency/Molina/Castillo
Lotta runs there!
PLUS, the defense from
those three will be
great!
Easy there…Castillo will probably hit 2nd, and what in the world is wrong with Molina or Murphy’s production in the 8 hole?
Again, Blanco was Maddux’s personal catcher in ATL and supposedly Johan loved him in MN, and SF has had some pretty darn good results from pitchers recently–maybe Molina has something to do with that?
Perhaps Molina and Blanco will maximize the pitching staff’s potential.
Santana has pitched better than his own career average when Blanco is behind the plate.
Oddly though, Maddux who kept Blanco as his personal catcher, has pitched worse than his own career average with Blanco behind the plate.
Of all catchers who caught at least 50 Maddux starts, he was best with (wait for it) Javy Lopez to my surprise.
Only 2 guys have caught Santana at least 50 starts and Santana is better than his average with Joe Mauer and worse than it with AJ Pierzynski.
With the Mets Santana has only been better than his career average with Ramon Castro, he’s worse than his own average with Schneider and Santos.
This is all based on a stat called tOPS+ which is available on the splits page at baseball-reference.com
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=santajo02&year=Career&t=p#catch
Thanks for this Grave.
With that lineup Castillo HAS to hit 2nd.
Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Beltran, Frenchy, Murphy, Molina,(if signed), Pagan is our current lineup.
Another interesting option IF we could teach him how to run the bases would be to improve 1B and 2B (not likely)
and go
Pagan, Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Frenchy, LaRoche, Molina, Castillo.
or
Pagan, Castillo, Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Frenchy, LaRoche, Molina
Speed and OBP on top and SLG in the bottom
Glad to see you warming up to my LaRoche idea (even if he blocks Greg Jeffries)
I would love to see Reyes 3rd but I just don’t see Jerry having the balls. Maybe 2nd at best but most likely Reyes goes back to leadoff. I would like to see what kind of damage Reyes and Pagan could do at the top of the order. We may need Castillo at the bottom just to break up the low OBP guys.
Molina clogs the bases unlike anyone
I’ve ever seen.52runs scored last yr
is a career high.Pitchers gonna be able to bunt him over?And how often will a healthy
Reyes be stuck on1B and unable to rattle pitchers with his legs b/c Molina
will be on base i/f/o?
And Castillo? Do you really think he doesn’t regress,breakdown or both?
And if not,and Omar does sign a legit Bat for LF,
You gonna allow Castillo that many more PAs hitting him#2?
Lastly,like I’ve been preaching,alot more likely we get ‘02
offensive #s &
‘09 Defense
from Molina than the other way around.
IF Castillo can keep his OBP up then I have no problem getting him a lot of AB’s.
I didn’t notice Santos scooting around the bases like Carl Lewis. And I didn’t notice Santos belting out a huge SLG% despite the fact that he exceeded his minor league record.
You would have to think that Santos is quicker but honestly that is not an issue of mine. My issue would be and still is the value of defense.
Defense is more than caught stealing numbers.
And if the beef is how Santos handles pitchers (something we can not credibly comment on), Molina has the reputation and recent success with young (but exceedingly talented) pitchers that Santos does not.
You may be right. Neither of us really know that one. The numbers that Grave put up for Molina were certainly not fantastic but I don’t know what Santos would look like either.
no need to worry about Molina in front of Reyes, Molina doesn’t get on base
True. But he does make contact. LOL. I guess the 7 spot is the best Molina could do.
Because his head has been beaten likea drum.
Remember. Jerry hates him.
SI_JonHeyman
purse strings opening for Omar? #mets are talking to lackey, holliday and bay with renewed hopes to sign 1 of big 3. molina also.
Omar bags at least one of the biggest guys every year, no reason to think he won’t again.
I hope it is Lackey.
Agreed.
Mega ditto!
can’t get any bigger than Molina
Boy, FA market price is really high this year.
Wagner at $7M
Wolf 3/27
Schneider
Penny $7.5M
Pettitte $12M
Gees. I thought most team has lowered their budget for next year.
They did. Those prices are high just like last year’s were high early. Longer the player waits I think the better chance of getting screwed. No reason last year for Ibanez to get 3/30+ but Abreu get 1/5.
I completely agree with this and it is why I can’t agree with the people who are being impatient and are upset with Omar for not having done anything significant yet.
Right, make your top offers for the big 3 and see who moves. But if you can’t get them I think you could be patient and get all kinds of Christmas items December 26th I mean uh Feb. 1.
But the players are not stupid either. They see this market and saw last year’s market and will sign fast and early.
In some cases yes, but all the players can’t possibly do that.
The Mets have to identify the players they want and let the ones they don’t pass.
I like the idea I read yesterday which was “the Mets are surprised/disappointed by the market for 2nd tier starters so are now shifting to Lackey.”
If I wanted Randy Wolf for 2/$16 but he’s getting 3/$30, and Brad Penny is getting 1/$7.5, I figure I’m sure as hell not going to overpay for that type of player, I may as well jump in on the better player and/or wait for the remaining mediocre player who is still around when the dust settles.
Speed and Defense huh!?
Yeah, a 36y/o Bengie Molina brings
that!
I just can’t see spending 6 mil a year on Molina or any catcher this year that’s 6 mil less to spend on Holiday or Lackey or both.This is the stuff that makes me hate Omar if he could somehow get both and workout a trade for a catcher he wouldn’t need molinas 20 hour power. I know he supposed to make the pitching staff better when you see what he did in san fran, but san fran also has better pitchers.It aint molina making them better.
I don’t think you can compare Mets signing Molina for 2/12 to signing Lackey AND Holliday long-term for 18 million a year.
Quote:
StevePopper
Heard from baseball official no truth on 2 year offer by #Mets to Bengie Molina. Interested but hoping for 1. 3 minutes ago from TwitterBerry
# SI_JonHeyman
#mets giving up on idea of unloading luis castillo. #betterthanbradley 5 minutes ago from mobile web
* Reply
* Retweet
# Ed Price ed_price
#Mets feel they are in contention for Jason Bay. Like #RedSox, if they miss out on Bay, not keen on Matt Holliday instead.
Metro, instead of posting this stuff as a comment, you can edit your original post and update the info.
Yeah I was going to post from Mattsblog.
According to Steve Popper of the Bergen Record, sources say while the Mets are interested in Molina, there is no truth to the rumor they offered a two year deal, and the Mets are hoping he can be had on a one year contract.
…as Matt said earlier, i see no reason why the Mets should have to go two years on a deal for Molina considering there is such a small market for his services, if that…
As I get into above, the tOPS+ stat is used to show whether a pitcher performs at, above or below his own average performance with a particular catcher behind the plate.
A score of 100 is your own average, and it works like golf in that the lower the score, the better the pitcher’s performance.
Here are some starters scores with Molina in their careers (not just 2009).
Lincecum - 95
Cain - 101
Zito - 119
Sanchez - 109
R. Johnson - 146
Correia - 105
Lowry - 113
M. Morris - 124
*Halladay - 82
Lilly - 99
Burnett - 131
*Lackey - 102
Byrd - 70
Washburn - 94
Escobar - 87
and for fun
KRod - 84
So at best inconsistent at worst nothing to the idea that he could improve the #’s of our staff.
I’d say inconsistent although unless/until I dig into every pitcher with every catcher I imagine there is going to be inconsistency throughout.
What I would do though, if I signed Molina, is try to also sign pitchers with whom he has worked well, like Escobar or Washburn.
I would really like for them to take a chance on Escobar. His market is very quite IMO.
You also have to consider sample sizes and the fact that guys like the Unit were just not the same pitcher they once were.
Having never worked with the same pitchers, it is tough to compare one catcher to another.
Agreed. You would just have to base it on word of mouth and scouts. Unfortunately that is why we got Schneider.
I understand and agree. But I think it’s worth noting that Lackey has pitched quite a lot to Bengie and does ever so slightly worse with him behind the plate.
I also think it’s worth at least investigating the possibility of bringing guys in who in worthy sample sizes performed better than average with BEngie, assuming he’s signed.